[Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)

raedwulf raedwulf at xmission.com
Fri Oct 8 15:11:13 CDT 2004

The only reason Graeleaf mentioned the discussion at Solstice was because 
that's the one he sat in on with Sir Ronan and Sir Decker (and some others 
that I can't remember).

I am not a fighter, but I am a deputy to the Earl Marshal and I know that 
when Duke John, who was King at the time, decided to limit it at 9ft it was 
announced at a couple different events and Sir Ronan also posted it to the 
marshallate email list.  The marshals on that list should have spread the 
word.  So, between the announcements made in courts and Sir Ronan telling 
the marshals, you would think more people would have been aware of the 
change.  Unfortunately, handbooks are not always as quickly updated as we 
would like them to be.

Just sharing what I know,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <earlalan at srv.net>
To: "Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list" <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)

> Greetings to Who May read this missive.
> I agree with Squire Ulrich.  When a change is to be made, we get people to
> buy into it, we tell them it's coming and prepare them, we get our
> "documents" in order, and then with this adequate warning, the change can
> be made.
> But some discussion at Solstice hardly makes Kingdom policy.
> Just my thoughts,
> Alan
>> Hello and greetings,
>>   I would have responded to these posts yesterday but I was out of town
>> until very late last evening. I will probably ruffle some feathers but
>> here goes:  This post started out innocently enough but as it progressed
>> it became o-so apparent that we are sorely lacking in something very
>> fundamental here in Artemisia, communication!  Vlad asked a very
>> pertinent question followed by several posts and some information that,
>> to me (and probably not only me) was absolutely brand new. At last I
>> knew (and if I am to believe the current Kingdom of Artemisia
>> Marshallate standards) 10 foot spears were legal in Artemisia. We were
>> different. Different than An Tir who allows 12 foot poles (agreeably
>> very long and unruly) and different than Atenveldt who only allows 9
>> foot poles. I don't know why we originally thought 10 foot spears were
>> OK but apparently this thought process has changed, Why? Were we trying
>> to be different (in our very Artemisian way) from our mother Kingdom,
>> did we think we were better spearman than the rest? Did we just
>> experiment and finally decide to be different? What was the thought
>> process on allowing 10 foot poles initially? And why is it to be changed
>> now? Is it the perception that we, as a fighting contingent cannot
>> handle 10 foot spears? Are we trying to comply with other Kingdoms to
>> standardize the size of spears? (Not in An Tir you don't) making it
>> easier to go to Estrella because we have the same Marshallate standards
>> as they do?  Are 10 foot spears more dangerous than 9 foot spears? What
>> was the thought process in this "latest" decision?
>>  Don't get me wrong, I will comply with what ever the "powers to be"
>> decide. I am, however a (paying) member of the SCA, a member of this
>> Kingdom, an authorized fighter in this Kingdom and I think that I have a
>> right to ask these and other questions and to state my displeasure in a
>> decision such as this being made and not informing the populace of it.
>> Because of this lack of communication I am out a fairly large (at least
>> to me) amount of money for no good reason. Anyone who travels to Estrella
>> can pick up 9 foot spears for 20 or 30 bucks and bring them back to
>> Artemisia for no shipping costs. Heck I purchased 2 for myself, 2 for a
>> friend, 2 for my Shire and so on and so on. When I learned that 10 foot
>> spears were legal (and being used in Artemisia) I thought that I would
>> put my 9 footers away for the War and went out, seeking to find 10 foot
>> spears. Guess where I found them, yes..An Tir. A full 20 dollars more (at
>> the time) a piece and almost the spear cost in shipping. I "bit the
>> bullet" and coughed up the money for 4 spears so that I could have 10
>> footers for Artemisia and at least one 12 foot spear for those rare
>> occasions that I traveled to An Tir (ever try to go up against a 12 ft
>> spear when you have a 9, not pretty) Now I am being told that "after much
>> discussion at last Solstice Court"  I have to take my 10 foot "corvette
>> model" spear and cut it down to a 9 foot "geo metro" length. Why the hell
>> did I go out and buy the more expensive, whiz bang, touring edition,
>> state of the art, and I might add "legal" 10 ft spear  and pay the
>> shipping from another Kingdom when everyone else was buying the stripped
>> down "geo metro" 9 footers that I already have two of ?  Now I have to
>> cut a foot off of my spear. Making it a very high priced, over-expensive
>> "geo" 9 footer. I say this not because of the cost involved, but because
>> nothing was ever communicated to the general populace. I am on the Aerie
>> mailing list, and several others. I get the Sage Advice. I talk to
>> Knights all of the time. At no time in the last year did anyone tell me
>> or even mention that the Kingdom was thinking about changing the rules on
>> length of spears. Never! What was the big secret?  I say "thinking about
>> it" because in my humble opinion, if is says in the Kingdom Marshallate
>> standards that 10 foot spears are allowed, and there has been nothing
>> published to the contrary, then 10 foot spears are allowed. Period. The
>> very first thing that should have been changed was the media Marshallate
>> standards that are posted on the Kingdom home page and a published change
>> in the Sage Advice. If for nothing else, than to keep those good gentles
>> and fighters that are far removed from those whom make these type of
>> decisions informed. Not everyone is "in the know" when it comes to these
>> changes. At this point I must humbly disagree with the good Thomas who
>> wrote that the Marshallate is being "updated" and 10 foot spears are not
>> allowed. Firstly let me say this. If it is not written down, it did not
>> happen. If the Marshallate standards now say 10 foot spears and nothing
>> has been published or communicated in a Kingdom wide media format to the
>> contrary, then it has not happened yet.  And he made a statement that "
>> the marshals will not let you take a 10 foot spear into combat in our
>> kingdom" and that is false as well. I took a 10 foot spear onto the field
>> for 2 separate days, at Uprising. It was inspected, I played with it, no
>> one told me it was too long, no one took it away, no one even knew it was
>> a 10 footer compared to the 9 footers, except possibly those whom I
>> killed in the battles, no questions were raised. There were 3 others out
>> there. I know because I measured them against mine. So at least 4 , 10
>> foot spears were at Uprising. The good gentles who asked me to lay my
>> spear against theirs were attempting to see if theirs were shorter than
>> the rest because they were not as "prolific" on the battlefield as they
>> had hoped, raising questions about the length of their spears, not the
>> ability of foot soldiers to duck away from their shots.  I say all of
>> this because I am dismayed firstly at the change in the length allowance.
>> Why not 10 foot spears? But I am more sorely dismayed at the lack of
>> communication about such an important issue. Important at least to some.
>> If this communication break-down is so apparent in this one isolated
>> issue then what are we to do with the more important issues at hand.
>> Communication is of the utmost importance in anything we do.
>> Communication will make this a great Kingdom. Lack of it will break the
>> back of what I feel is the best Kingdom in the Known World.  The issue is
>> not the length of your spear, but how you communicate its length. Selling
>> the length is actually more important than the actual length itself.  :)
>> In the future please strive to communicate better, all of us. That is the
>> only way.  The only way to make us look, act, and be Great as a Kingdom.
>> No one wants to look foolish. No one wants to feel foolish. At this point
>> too many are looking and feeling foolish about this one small incident.
>> Lets not make it a habit.
>> I stand in service to King and Queen,
>> Kingdom and Knight...to all of Artemisia
>> Ulric
>> Ulric de Dalyhel
>> proud squire to Sir Decker Hawkeswood
>> and Seneschal, Kingdom of Artemisia
>> "Deo et Regi Fidelis"
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