[Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)

Allen Hall earlalan at srv.net
Fri Oct 8 22:19:48 CDT 2004

Hi All,

Until it's approved by the Crown, and published in the Sage so everyone gets
to see it, I would think it's not official.

It seems the only place you can for sure point to is the stuff that's
on-line, and I understand that it says 10 feet.

Personally, I don't care much either way.  I've had a 9 foot spear for a
really long time, but I really doubt that you can make a case that a 10 foot
spear is all that much more dangerous.  It's the person behind the weapon
that's dangerous.  We should be regulating them, not so much the weapon.
(Hmmm, that sounds familiar <vbg>).

Thanks everyone for your input, it's good to hear what people think.


----- Original Message -----
From: <ratslayr at mindspring.com>
To: "Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list" <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)

> And just to add to that, I knew about it and well I'm not the most well
informed person, especially of late so it had to have come up in a public
venue of sorts.
> Kelwin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: raedwulf <raedwulf at xmission.com>
> Sent: Oct 8, 2004 2:11 PM
> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)
> The only reason Graeleaf mentioned the discussion at Solstice was because
> that's the one he sat in on with Sir Ronan and Sir Decker (and some others
> that I can't remember).
> I am not a fighter, but I am a deputy to the Earl Marshal and I know that
> when Duke John, who was King at the time, decided to limit it at 9ft it
> announced at a couple different events and Sir Ronan also posted it to the
> marshallate email list.  The marshals on that list should have spread the
> word.  So, between the announcements made in courts and Sir Ronan telling
> the marshals, you would think more people would have been aware of the
> change.  Unfortunately, handbooks are not always as quickly updated as we
> would like them to be.
> Just sharing what I know,
> Megen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <earlalan at srv.net>
> To: "Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list" <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)
> > Greetings to Who May read this missive.
> >
> > I agree with Squire Ulrich.  When a change is to be made, we get people
> > buy into it, we tell them it's coming and prepare them, we get our
> > "documents" in order, and then with this adequate warning, the change
> > be made.
> >
> > But some discussion at Solstice hardly makes Kingdom policy.
> >
> > Just my thoughts,
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >> Hello and greetings,
> >>   I would have responded to these posts yesterday but I was out of town
> >> until very late last evening. I will probably ruffle some feathers but
> >> here goes:  This post started out innocently enough but as it
> >> it became o-so apparent that we are sorely lacking in something very
> >> fundamental here in Artemisia, communication!  Vlad asked a very
> >> pertinent question followed by several posts and some information that,
> >> to me (and probably not only me) was absolutely brand new. At last I
> >> knew (and if I am to believe the current Kingdom of Artemisia
> >> Marshallate standards) 10 foot spears were legal in Artemisia. We were
> >> different. Different than An Tir who allows 12 foot poles (agreeably
> >> very long and unruly) and different than Atenveldt who only allows 9
> >> foot poles. I don't know why we originally thought 10 foot spears were
> >> OK but apparently this thought process has changed, Why? Were we trying
> >> to be different (in our very Artemisian way) from our mother Kingdom,
> >> did we think we were better spearman than the rest? Did we just
> >> experiment and finally decide to be different? What was the thought
> >> process on allowing 10 foot poles initially? And why is it to be
> >> now? Is it the perception that we, as a fighting contingent cannot
> >> handle 10 foot spears? Are we trying to comply with other Kingdoms to
> >> standardize the size of spears? (Not in An Tir you don't) making it
> >> easier to go to Estrella because we have the same Marshallate standards
> >> as they do?  Are 10 foot spears more dangerous than 9 foot spears? What
> >> was the thought process in this "latest" decision?
> >>  Don't get me wrong, I will comply with what ever the "powers to be"
> >> decide. I am, however a (paying) member of the SCA, a member of this
> >> Kingdom, an authorized fighter in this Kingdom and I think that I have
> >> right to ask these and other questions and to state my displeasure in a
> >> decision such as this being made and not informing the populace of it.
> >> Because of this lack of communication I am out a fairly large (at least
> >> to me) amount of money for no good reason. Anyone who travels to
> >> can pick up 9 foot spears for 20 or 30 bucks and bring them back to
> >> Artemisia for no shipping costs. Heck I purchased 2 for myself, 2 for a
> >> friend, 2 for my Shire and so on and so on. When I learned that 10 foot
> >> spears were legal (and being used in Artemisia) I thought that I would
> >> put my 9 footers away for the War and went out, seeking to find 10 foot
> >> spears. Guess where I found them, yes..An Tir. A full 20 dollars more
> >> the time) a piece and almost the spear cost in shipping. I "bit the
> >> bullet" and coughed up the money for 4 spears so that I could have 10
> >> footers for Artemisia and at least one 12 foot spear for those rare
> >> occasions that I traveled to An Tir (ever try to go up against a 12 ft
> >> spear when you have a 9, not pretty) Now I am being told that "after
> >> discussion at last Solstice Court"  I have to take my 10 foot "corvette
> >> model" spear and cut it down to a 9 foot "geo metro" length. Why the
> >> did I go out and buy the more expensive, whiz bang, touring edition,
> >> state of the art, and I might add "legal" 10 ft spear  and pay the
> >> shipping from another Kingdom when everyone else was buying the
> >> down "geo metro" 9 footers that I already have two of ?  Now I have to
> >> cut a foot off of my spear. Making it a very high priced,
> >> "geo" 9 footer. I say this not because of the cost involved, but
> >> nothing was ever communicated to the general populace. I am on the
> >> mailing list, and several others. I get the Sage Advice. I talk to
> >> Knights all of the time. At no time in the last year did anyone tell me
> >> or even mention that the Kingdom was thinking about changing the rules
> >> length of spears. Never! What was the big secret?  I say "thinking
> >> it" because in my humble opinion, if is says in the Kingdom Marshallate
> >> standards that 10 foot spears are allowed, and there has been nothing
> >> published to the contrary, then 10 foot spears are allowed. Period. The
> >> very first thing that should have been changed was the media
> >> standards that are posted on the Kingdom home page and a published
> >> in the Sage Advice. If for nothing else, than to keep those good
> >> and fighters that are far removed from those whom make these type of
> >> decisions informed. Not everyone is "in the know" when it comes to
> >> changes. At this point I must humbly disagree with the good Thomas who
> >> wrote that the Marshallate is being "updated" and 10 foot spears are
> >> allowed. Firstly let me say this. If it is not written down, it did not
> >> happen. If the Marshallate standards now say 10 foot spears and nothing
> >> has been published or communicated in a Kingdom wide media format to
> >> contrary, then it has not happened yet.  And he made a statement that "
> >> the marshals will not let you take a 10 foot spear into combat in our
> >> kingdom" and that is false as well. I took a 10 foot spear onto the
> >> for 2 separate days, at Uprising. It was inspected, I played with it,
> >> one told me it was too long, no one took it away, no one even knew it
> >> a 10 footer compared to the 9 footers, except possibly those whom I
> >> killed in the battles, no questions were raised. There were 3 others
> >> there. I know because I measured them against mine. So at least 4 , 10
> >> foot spears were at Uprising. The good gentles who asked me to lay my
> >> spear against theirs were attempting to see if theirs were shorter than
> >> the rest because they were not as "prolific" on the battlefield as they
> >> had hoped, raising questions about the length of their spears, not the
> >> ability of foot soldiers to duck away from their shots.  I say all of
> >> this because I am dismayed firstly at the change in the length
> >> Why not 10 foot spears? But I am more sorely dismayed at the lack of
> >> communication about such an important issue. Important at least to
> >> If this communication break-down is so apparent in this one isolated
> >> issue then what are we to do with the more important issues at hand.
> >> Communication is of the utmost importance in anything we do.
> >> Communication will make this a great Kingdom. Lack of it will break the
> >> back of what I feel is the best Kingdom in the Known World.  The issue
> >> not the length of your spear, but how you communicate its length.
> >> the length is actually more important than the actual length itself.
> >> In the future please strive to communicate better, all of us. That is
> >> only way.  The only way to make us look, act, and be Great as a
> >> No one wants to look foolish. No one wants to feel foolish. At this
> >> too many are looking and feeling foolish about this one small incident.
> >> Lets not make it a habit.
> >>
> >> I stand in service to King and Queen,
> >> Kingdom and Knight...to all of Artemisia
> >>
> >> Ulric
> >>
> >> Ulric de Dalyhel
> >> proud squire to Sir Decker Hawkeswood
> >> and Seneschal, Kingdom of Artemisia
> >>
> >> "Deo et Regi Fidelis"
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> >>
> >
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