[Artemisia] kingdom Attention

[Mike Bradley]

skytech wrote:

> This was posted today on Arrows Flights chats.  I think that you all 
> need to see it.  I am not sure who Hanzie is,

I don't know either, nor do I really care.  (Though, of course thanks to 
modern marvel of computers, finding out at the least what people want to 
write about themselves is fairly easy.  Especially with a Yahoo profile...)

> but if this is his belife of how the kingdoms should think or how the 
> fighters feel.  Then I have joined the wrong group!  Some one please 
> tell me this is not true!

OK. It's not true.  And, since this managed to catch me in a 
'not-really-caring-about-being-annoying' mood, I'll go through the whole 
thing point by point. :)

> M'Lady Tula Zarazee
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> I have said "Arrow's Flight" isn't a good name,
> because it is insensitive to the Crown and the
> Chivalry.

No, 'Canton of We Hate Those Jerks with Crowns and Those Jerks with 
White Belts' would be insensitive to the Crown and Chivalry.  'Arrow's 
Flight'  is no more offensive to the Chiv than 'Oxford' is to people 
that wanted to take their horses across the river.

>
> The rebuttal consists solely of personal attacks at
> the Chivalry, the Crown, and myself.

Uh...right.

>
> The rebuttal completely ignores the feelings of the
> Chivalry, the Crown, which is the only assertion I
> have made.

And you know the feelings of the Crown and the Chivalry?  Are you on the 
Chiv list?  Attend Chiv circles?  Actually *know* any Chivalry that are 
offended or have their feelings hurt by the name?  I've known the 
current King for almost 10 (I say 10, damnit!) years, and know that he 
has friends that are heavy fighters, rapier fighters, siege weapons 
people, non-fighters, and <gasp> even archers.  I seriously doubt that 
the name 'Arrow's Flight' hurts either His or Her Majesty's feelings.  
Nor do I think that it has any affect what so ever on any of the 
multitude of people with White Belts I know.

>
>
> --- Ash <ash0315 at yahoo.com <mailto:ash0315 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> > Well Hanzie it may spell "problem child" to you but
>
> [[This area has had troubles in the past, and they're
> linked to the name "Arrow's Flight".  That is an
> established fact, not just my opinion.  Anyone
> disbelieving this is invited to search the last
> month's kingdom newsgroup archive.  Search for the
> text string "troubles"]]

Every group has problems at one time or another...so what.

>
> > to those of us who worked hard to even have the area
> > recognized as a separate entity............. it's
> > the
> > result of many years of hard work.
> I am sure that
> > you
> > did not intend to insult those of use who have
> > played
> > in the past and are now cautiously coming back.
> [[Good, because I didn't insult anybody.]]
>
> [[By the way, are you someone who has "worked hard for
> many years" or are you a former player "now cautiously
> coming back"?]]
>
> >But
> > you are getting just a bit on the arrogant side in
> > suggesting that the only thing the the SCA values
> > are heavy fighters.
> [[As I never suggested that, I'm safely away from the
> "arrogant side".]]
>
> [[As I said before, the name irritates those whom we
> most need the respect of, the King and Knights. 

Hmm, damn.  No one ever told me I needed the respect of the King and 
Knights.  I always just thought it was kind of a fringe benefit of 
participating and trying to have fun and live up to the ideals of 
Chivalry and Virtue that the SCA has.  Silly me.

> They
> make all the final decisions. 

Really?!?  Then what do all the other officers do?  Last I checked there 
were a lot of people making decisions.  The Crown may get to make more, 
and have more authority than a lot of people, but if they were making 
all the final decisions on everything, there wouldn't be a whole lot of 
spare time for oh...work, life, and things like that for six months.  
And of course, there is always the fact that the BoD can overturn 
anything a King does...

> How many times does
> Corpora say "The decision of the Crown is final."?

Zero. Nil. Null. Nada.  Not even once.  And go figure, some Kingdoms 
don't give power to the King and Queen unless they consult with the 
Curia Regis first.

>
> The only way to get to be a final decision maker is to
> be a heavy combatant.]]

No, the only way to become /Sovereign/ is as a heavy combatant.  Even if 
one accepted the fallacy that the Crown has ultimate power, the Crown 
consists of two people with equal power.  Only one of them has to be a 
heavy fighter.

>
>
> >Ask the kings & knights how well> they
> > would fare without the help of the Gentles who for
> one
> > reason or another do not go out on the field.
> [[It looks like you have some real and deep seated
> resentment of the Crown and knights.  Why?  And which
> Gentles who never go out on the field are
> indispensable.]]

Wow, I don't see any resentment of the King or Knights in the first 
part, but the second seems to have some real problems with anyone that 
isn't a heavy fighter.  And I know many fighters that sing the praises 
of water-bearers, marshals, heralds, and others that aren't fighting.  
Some even praise those non-fighters more than they brag about how many 
people they took out that day. ;-)  Probably because, without those 
other people, they wouldn't get to fight nearly as much.

>
> >Would you last long with out the volunteers bringing
> the
> > water?
> [[Are you threatening the heavy fighters with a water
> bearer strike? 

This jump of reasoning contains a major argumentative and logical 
fallacy.  Determining which one it is is left as an excercise for the 
student.

> Well, since you're asking... I'd guess
> that, at first, a few fighters would die of
> dehydration.  Then somebody would seduce a (former)
> water bearer, and cunningly trick her into letting go
> the secret of how they are able to produce water on
> the battlefield, where none was before.]]
>
> [[Then, the very brightest of the heavy fighters would
> get together, and try to reverse engineer the parts
> that the former water bearer wouldn't tell.  I'd
> imagine (and I'm really going out on a limb, folks)
> that fighters would: Bring their own water jugs]]
>
> [[I could, of course, be wrong, but I think that
> radical idea might work, and save the lives of
> fighters you would so callously throw away during your
> Water Bearer Strike]]

Nah.  Because when the first fighter died, the SCA would get sued, be 
shut down, and then noone would need water to drink during fighting.  
There wouldn't be any fighting to drink water during.

>
> Would you go to a Court event without Music?
> [[Yes, actually.  I have many times.  Music certainly
> makes it nicer, but it's far from necessary.  So what?
> Are you planning a Musician's strike too?  Should I
> have the misfortune to be crown when your strike hits,
> I shall be forced to lug my stereo to court.  I'd
> bring the good speakers for the dancing later on.]]
>
> [[Musicians play in court because people enjoy it, not
> because life stops without a soundtrack.]]

Wow, a semi-valid, semi-reasonable point.  I can live without music.  I 
rarely do, because either there are musicians playing or a random Royal 
or Peer will ask me to sing.  But, an event without music wouldn't die.  
All events, well that's pushing it.

>
> [[Of course, if nobody but fighters were left, there
> wouldn't BE any Court Only events.  You can trust me
> on this.]]

If there was nobody but fighters left, there wouldn't be an SCA.

>
> > Or a feast?
> [[I've eaten without music at many events.  It works.
> I'm mostly interested in conversation with friends
> anyway.  Does your Musician's strike hope to starve us
> into submission?]]
>
> [[If you're trying to somehow say that there would be
> no food in a heavy-fighter only SCA, all I can say is
> you've never heard of steak, bread, cheese and pizza.
> Some heavy fighters can even cook, and all can
> barbeque.]]

Ah yes.  Pizza.  A true staple of the Middle Ages.

>
> >The people who lend their skills in period
> > lace, sewing, brewing, calligraphy, do they
> contribute
> > nothing?
> [[No, they contribute lace, clothing, alcoholic
> beverages and scrolls.  Haven't you noticed?]]
> [[In addition to Water Bearer's and Musicians Strikes,
> are you arranging sympathy strikes?  You seem to be
> planning on forcing the Crown and Chivalry into
> thirst, silence, nudity, sobriety and illiteracy --
> Worst of all, you plan to deprive heavy fighters of
> BOBBIN LACE!  Ye Gods, how will they survive?
> Fortunately, it's too late for your last threat.
> M'Lady Ruth Wayne of the Green Hills forsaw your evil
> plot and secretly taught me the arcane art of bobbin
> lace.  I have created bobbin lace, and can do it
> again!  Hah!]]

...

>
> >I see nothing wrong in honoring the "little people"
> the ones who will never be >King.........
> [[Neither does the Crown, Chivalry, Heavy fighters or
> myself.  In fact, Kings give awards to these folks
> that you describe as the "little people".  Your
> point?]]

........

>
> > without their support and talents would there be any
> > point to being the King?
> [[These "little people" (again, your words, not mine!)
> Enrich the realm.  Should your rebellion against the
> Crown and Chivalry come to pass....]]

...............

>
> [[Yes, actually, there would be a point.  The King
> would still sit on his throne, in gleaming armor,
> lording it over the Chivalry, who in turn would lord
> it over the rest of the fighters.  Feasts would
> closely resemble tailgate parties, booze would be
> purchased rather than brewed.  Music would be provided
> by whomever brought the boom box.]]

........Uh .....huh.  Yeah.  Right.  WTF?  Ok.  Let's eliminate all the 
people who make the SCA happen, except for the people in armor.  Now, 
lets assume that there is still an SCA (doubtful, but hey, this is your 
fantasy, not mine).  Now, the King is 'lording it over the Chivalry' and 
they in turn are 'lord[ing] it over the rest of the fighters'?  Yeah, 
that should go over real well and last real long.

>
> [[There would be women at these events, because there
> will always be ladies who like hanging out with men
> full of testosterone. 

I'd love to see you say that to some of the Ladies of Artemisia.  That 
they are here because they like hanging out with men just for the 
testosterone.  Hell, I'd love to see you tell some of the men that the 
ladies only are around because of the testosterone.  But, I'd be more 
afraid of some of the Ladies.  Especially the delicate little flowers of 
Artemisia.

> But nobody will dare call these
> ladies "little people". 

No, since in this weird, 
more-fighting-and-more-chauvanistic-than-the-real-Middle-Ages fantasy 
world you have, the ladies would be there for nothing more than window 
dressing and swooning at the testosterone filled macho fighters, they'd 
probably get called things a lot worse than 'little people'.

> There would be more fighting
> at these events, and courts would be much shorter.]]

They'd have to be.  Since there wouldn't be anyone around to recognize 
for actually *doing anything*.  And, really, how many new fighting 
awards can you create to give the fighters.

>
> >I do not see anything
> > shameful about the name.  If you do, please meet me
> > at
> > fighter practice on Wed and explain to me why.
> > Ash
> [[I never said "shameful".  Who said "Shameful"?  Why
> do you associate "Shameful" with "Arrows Flight"?  Why
> would you think that I know something "shameful" about
> the area that I could only discuss it in private at
> fighter practice?]]
>
> hanzie.
>
> >
> > 
> > --- hanzie <lordhanzie at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Do we really want to chain our image to archery?
> > >
> > > Regardless of anyone's opinion on the opinions of
> > > the
> > > heavys, they're the Kings and Knights of the
> > realm.
> > > By intentionally saying we are first and foremost
> > > Archers, we say we don't care as much about the
> > core
> > > of the SCA, heavy fighters.
> > >

Why does 'Arrow's Flight' say that anyone that lives there is an 
archer?  First, it's a measurement of distance.  Or, a description of a 
straight line.  Second, saying that someone from Arrow's Flight is tied 
to archery is akin to saying that I have something to do with peacocks 
just because I live in One Thousand Eyes.

>
> > > I agree that we've worked hard at solving our
> > > problems. 
> > >
> > > I agree with Matthew Morgon, We Need To Move On.
> > >
> > > Moving on is when you leave the bad stuff behind,
> > > like
> > > the name "Arrow's Flight" and all it's associated
> > > problems.  Arrow's flight is synonymous in
> > Artemesia
> > > with "problem child".  Ditching the name will only
> > > help us.
> > >

Yeah.  Sure.  Names cause the problem.  That's it.  Change a name and 
all of everything bad goes away.  And if I just add a few zeros to the 
end of my bank statement, I'll be rich.

>
> > > If "this name has exceed where all other has
> > failed"
> > > [sic] then why does "Arrow's Flight" have such a
> > bad
> > > name? 
> > >
> > > The name has actually failed, and has helped cause
> > > the
> > > present problems.  Clinging to it will only hold
> > us
> > > back.
> > >

Names don't cause problems.  Changing names doesn't solve problems.

>
> > > > --- Matthew Morgon arrows flight sheriff
> > > > <skytech at FantasticDeals.com> wrote:
> > > > > no, I think that chaining the name would not
> > be
> > > a
> > > > > good idea, because
> > > > > we have work so hard to solving or problems.
> > and
> > > > > that this area has
> > > > > chaining the name more then once with the same
> > > out
> > > > > come this name has
> > > > > exceed were all other has failed and that we
> > > need
> > > > to
> > > > > move on and just
> > > > > keep the name
> > > > >  
>
>
> =====
> ... and God said, "Let there be a Satan, so people won't blame 
> everything on me." -- George Burns
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Sigh.  That has got to be some of the most ... arrrrrggggghhhh.  Ahem.  
The part of my brain that polices what I say in a public forum just 
kicked in.  So, in an effort to not annoy anyone that I care whether or 
not they get annoyed any further, I'll just say this...

Tula, you have joined a wonderful organization that runs because of the 
cooperation of many, many, many people.  It is a wonderful place to meet 
friends and enjoy many activities, including (but not limited to in any 
way) heavy fighting.  Some people would even argue that heavy fighting 
is not the core of SCA anymore (if it ever was...).  And I don't think 
that you have to worry about running into too many people with opinions 
that only fighters are neccessary or worthy, or that 'Arrow's Flight' is 
a name insulting to anyone.

Lord Conchobhar mac Michil, OGS, AOA, OTd'O, OPH, OSE
Major of the Black Wing Company, Captain of Her Excellency's Musketeers
*not* a heavy fighter, but friends with a lot of them