[Artemisia] Re: Court

[Mary Hodges]

Greetings.

It seems that Her Grace assumed that I was writing specifically to her. 
  That was not the case; my comments were general.  I will address her 
comments on my remarks.  I would like to apologize to her if she took 
any of my comments personally, that was not my intent.

Kay Moore wrote:

> 
> Well, hmmmmm - allow me to put in a nickel's worth now.
> 
>> Kay Moore wrote:
>> <snip of earlier paragraphs>
>>
>>> Yup - long courts suck - for many reasons.   If those reasons are not 
>>> addressed, people begin to have negative feelings about Court, and, 
>>> as we have begun to see, don't attend.  ....
> 
> 
> 
>> Sitting in state might help this.  I know there are royal peers on 
>> this list, are any willing to discuss sitting in state?
> 
> 
> Well, since you asked...  Sitting in State - exactly how and when would 
> that work in your opinion?

I have never been or am likely to be queen.  However, other people have 
described sitting in state to me as an informal arrangement.  The Crowns 
have their heralds announce that they will be sitting in state at a 
certain time in a certain place.  The monarchs come to the appointed 
place at the appointed time and people visit them.  I have never seen 
sitting in state, but it sounds a bit like a queen's tea.  People are 
given access to the crown, to make private presentations or address 
concerns, but there is no  important public business.
   The Crown would have to arrange and
> re-arrange Their schedules to include this 'new' activity - and 
> whomsoever (Populace-wise) wanted to attend THAT may - or may not - 
> depending on when THAT was scheduled, etc. etc.   Having sat a Throne 3 
> times, I can say with some experience that ONE Court is quite enough, 
> thankyouverymuch.   I would wake up the next morning to find my Herald's 
> dagger (and probably a few Ladies-in-Waiting's daggers as well!) 
> imbedded somewhere in my person were I to suggest THREE Courts in one 
> day.......I twould be an incredible responsibility and difficult job to 
> set up something like that (sigh) -  location, time, chairs, 
> decorations, 'who's going to sit in', (Baron(esses), visitng royalty, 
> etc.).   Seems to me that well-organized Royalty can accomplish what 
> They need without subjecting the Populace to yet more sitting.

It was only a suggestion, and not even originally my suggestion.
> 
>>
>> I haven't seen much the private discussion at the front kind of thing 
>> that you describe; I have seen much more time abuse by people who 
>> wanted to make sure that their activity got as much attention as their 
>> competitors.
> 
> 
> Announcements by a few people regarding their upcoming events (IMHO) is 
> a necessary "Public Service Announcement".  

Agreed, but that is not what my earlier post was addressing.  My whole 
string of posts is and was about long courts at large outdoor events. 
Announcements of upcoming events rarely take more than a minute, and the 
announcers seldom ramble.

I think I can safely say
> that a great many of us have seen Court situations  where someone comes 
> into Court for the sole purpose of personal glitz, if for nothing else 
> to simply be seen in Court.  These things are rarely, if EVER, the 
> 'fault' of the Crown - They don't have a crystal ball, (contrary to 
> popular belief) and have no idea what's coming - except for the name on 
> the List, and that it's either "business", a presentation of some sort, 
> announcement, etc.   The Crown is OFTEN on the spot when someone decides 
> to ramble on about some inane thing - but They must handle it (and the 
> person) with grace - and brass it out.
> 
>>
>> Also, what is it, exactly, that you expect the herald to do?  Tap 
>> His/Her Majesty on the shoulder and say "You don't have time for 
>> this."?  Tackle the presenter on the way to the front?  Most heralds 
>> are reasonably forceful personalities, but they don't get hazard pay.  :)
>>
> While I might somewhat appreciate your facetiousness - allow me to give 
> you a bit broader picture of 'what I expect the Herald to do'.    
> Someone of the caliber (if possible) of Nicolo - one of the finest Court 
> Heralds I've ever had the pleasure to witness at Court - wonderful 
> voice, fine presentation, humor, (knows when to use it and has the good 
> sense to know when something is to be taken more seriously) and the 
> talent to make a 'filler comment' during those less vocal moments (i.e. 
> when someone in court is moved to emotion and needs a moment to recover, 
> etc.) along with numerous other talents I won't list here.   I would 
> like to see the Herald edit, condense, and then inform the Populace in a 
> concise manner as to, for example, personal gifts - "Their Majesties 
> have just been presented with a beautiful pair of blah blahs from the 
> fine people of the Barony of Yadeeyah"    While the Crown is leaning in 
> closely to the presenter and thanking them, the Herald lets the Populace 
> know what it is They're thanking the person for -since WE can't SEE what 
> the object was, or hear any of the details.  Perhaps you might ask just 
> about anyone in your area how a truly fine Vox can handle any situation 
> in Court - abbreviated, informative, with grace and/or humor.

> > THAT'S what I expect.  No tackling, and no need for 'hazard pay' as you 
> so interestingly put it.
I'm glad to know that there is a court herald whom you admire, but the 
most skillful editing, condensing and explaining isn't going to address 
the problem of long unscheduled things going on in court, and the effect 
of uncontrolled, multiple episodes of long unscheduled things on a cold 
evening.
> 
>> >
>>
>> There could be more than one kind of court, formal and informal, or 
>> high and low.  High court is for important stuff, low court is for 
>> announcements, prize-giving, etc.  Who decides what's important?  
>> Their majesties, excellencies etc. or their designated 
>> representative.  This is not a democracy, remember?
> 
> 
> Thank you so kindly for reminding me.  After 23 years of membership in 
> the SCA, I do tend to forget things now and then - but this is not one 
> of them.   As you stated "there COULD be more than one kind of 
> court...."   Could be - but currently there  isn't.  Courts all over the 
> Knowne World are often set up beginning with more usual recognitions 
> first - AoAs, etc., and move up - finishing with a Peerage - or 2, 
> depending on the size of the event.  "Close with a bang" so to speak.   
> I am sure we are all well aware of who decides what, my Gentle Noble - 
> and those things will not and should not change.  I never suggested 
> anyone step in and presume to change that - or am I inferring incorrectly?

I am sorry that I raised your ire.  I was not addressing you personally, 
but rather the general populace, who sometimes seem to forget that this 
game isn't a democracy, and also sometimes seem to wish that the SCA was 
a democracy.

You did ask for ideas about court.  I find nothing wrong with the 
current practice of the ceremonial parts of court.

Court is important.  I haven't been in the SCA quite as long as you 
have, but I have seen a general erosion in attitudes towards court, and 
in attendance.  I think that's worrisome trend, and that we ought to 
think about some alternatives to the current court structure.
> 
>> The powers-that-be could announce early in the day that only items on 
>> the agenda will be addressed in court, then have some one available at 
>> a central place (heralds' point?, royal pavilion? baronial pavilion?) 
>> to collect items people wanted on the agenda and give them to the 
>> court herald with enough time to weed through and schedule, and get 
>> messages back to would-be presenters.  That would mean more 
>> organization, more work for the court herald, meeting at least two 
>> deadlines, and getting reliable messages to people, all things that 
>> can be rather difficult. Some one is bound to be miffed about having 
>> to schedule things, or about not getting to do whatever it is they 
>> wanted to do in court, so there may be a social or emotional cost, as 
>> well as extra labor.  Organized agendas would allow time for 
>> entertainments, ceremonies would take place close to the times they 
>> are scheduled, a lot of deadly boring stuff would go away, the 
>> elements of "rite" and theatre that make courts special would be 
>> enhanced, and most people would be happier.
> 
> 
> Ah, yes - the ideal 'organized agenda'.   Try as they might, the Crown 
> and Their retainers (be they Ladies-in-waiting, Men-at-Arms, Heralds - 
> even the best ones! and other 'staffers' cannot organize people and 
> chance at events.   Children, injuries, postponed or delayed activities 
> within their encampments, etc., might well preclude an 'organized 
> agenda' from ever happening.   Might I ask as to whether or not you have 
> ever undertaken any of the above-mentioned services??

I have never been part of a privy council, so I have never seen or heard 
of any one asking for items to be put onto a court agenda.  From my 
point of view, it appears that the royals and their retinue know what 
they're going to do, and what needs to be done, but the part of court 
that they open to the public is a free for all, and that is the part 
that rapidly gets out of control, resulting in mind-numbing boredom. 
Having an agenda and sticking to it would help control the part of court 
that is not under direct control.
> 
> Let's see if I am capable of setting up a hypothetical here according to 
> your objective and well-meant idea:    So, ideally, on Saturday morning, 
> the camp criers announce that Their Majesties will be sitting in state 
> after lunch - say 1 o'clock.   Anyone interested in either having 
> business at that time, or wishing to attend, should contact 'the herald' 
> say to get their name on the list.  Everyone else brings chairs or 
> whatever and attends as Populace.   

No.  Sitting in state is informal.  No list of people.  Perhaps a line 
of people, if a lot of people want to talk, but no getting on a list. 
Their majesties show up, stay for the stated period of time, see whoever 
wants to see them, and then leave.    This would happen once at a big 
event like Uprising.

Then - during the fighting scenarios
> or rapier or classes or whatever else the *Autocrat* has scheduled, 
> Sitting in State is accomplished somehow.  Maybe not very well attended 
> because of all the other activities, but some folks do show.    At the 
> end of this, the 'herald' announces there will be "Low" Court at, say, 
> 6p.   Assuming everyone has scheduled their dinner, showers, children's 
> needs, etc., around that, they can attend Low Court to see their buddy 
> get their AoA or their Baronial recognitions.    All we have left now is 
> High Court at say, 8pm .....   Three times in one day.   Whew.

Any kind of *official* award or recognition must be done at a high 
court.  High court is formal, has a strict agenda, and no one gets to do 
any thing without prior approval, unless there is a real emergency.  Low 
court is to accept presentations, hear who won what prizes, and so on. 
Maybe low court could be in the morning or at noon, and high court in 
the evening, making two medium courts instead of one short morning court 
and one long evening court, as we do now?
> 
>>
>> Another tactic would be for all of us to ask ourselves if it is really 
>> necessary to make announcements.  At an event with several hundred 
>> people, if your activity involved seven people, and all of their 
>> friends-and-relations were there to see them, do you really need to 
>> take fifteen minutes in court and announce who won, who participated 
>> and what they did?  I know people want to publicize their activities, 
>> but unlike the real middle ages, most of us can read.  It is unkind to 
>> take time to do this at court because you have a captive audience.
>>
> You're kidding, right?   Unfortunately, these are exactly the type of 
> announcements MOST people DO WANT to hear - if they were involved 
> elsewhere during the day, they might like to know their buddy Squire Bob 
> won the tourney, or whatever some of the key activities were.   

The selection of what announcements go into high or low court is up to 
their majesties.  I would think announcements about key activities would 
be of enough interest to be announced in high court.  Not all activities 
are key activities.
(I don't
> know of too many folks - family members or not - who are in a position 
> to give up THEIR entire afternoon, morning, whatever - to go watch 1 
> person take part in THEIR particular activity  - although I'm sure we 
> all wish we could at times.  I think I speak knowledgeably when I say 
> that many wives would LOVE to be present on the list field sidelines to 
> see their husband Squire/Knight do well in a melee' - but because of 
> children's naps, needs, their own responsibilities, etc., heat, health, 
> whatever - they can't.   And if their Lord wins - they're more than 
> proud to be in Court to hear that name announced.
> 
> 
>> If your activity needs more publicity, you could hire a herald to go 
>> around and announce the event.
> 
> 
> Yes you could.  It's not the activity that needs the publicity - it's 
> the OUTCOME.

Not all activities or their outcomes are of interest to all of the 
people at an event.
> 
>> If you wrote a nice note, or even just asked nicely, a peer would come 
>> and give out the prizes at the end of your competition, with plenty of 
>> time to talk about what happened.  That would be a nice way to 
>> recognize people at your activity. Write up the results and post them 
>> at your group's web page, or in the newsletter.
> 
> 
> That's a lovely idea.  Read all about it in the next Sage.....  However 
> - if HL Squire Hrothgar won the Artemisian Torchlight Auction Tourney - 
> I wouldn't ask a Knight to go around and announce it to all the 
> campsites.   Who's going to write the note?    Which Knight exactly 
> would you ask to do this??   (just for example...)

Armored combat comes under the heading of key activities.  The winner of 
the Artemisian Torchlight Auction Tourney may well be our next king, and 
so is of interest to every one.  The winner of the all-kingdom 
sheep-shearing, to use my theoretical example, is not of interest to 
every one.  The organizer of the sheep shearing competition is the one 
who should publicize the competition, write notes, organize 
prize-giving, and report the results.  S/he should not get up in court 
and give a fifteen minute blow by blow account of the competition, 
including each sheep's personal hay preference, unless, of course, their 
majesties specifically request her to do so.


> 
>>
>> Courtesy applies to taking people's time at court.  If what you have 
>> to say is of interest to only a few people, say it to the people who 
>> are interested.  If you must use court time, or are invited to use 
>> court time, be brief, loud and concise.  If you are allotted two 
>> minutes, resist the temptation to take ten minutes because Lady 
>> I'mtalkingandIcan'tstop took ten minutes to report on her pet 
>> competition.
>>
> On this we are in total agreement.   Courtesy applies to LOTS of 
> things.    I'm quite sure we could have dispensed with the entire thing 
> and in your final paragraph hit the nail on the head.   
It will take a
> while for all options to present themselves, and then to be tried and 
> proven.  We have a very dynamic Populace and Crown in Artemisia - 
> everyone is full of ideas.   Implementing all of them is what takes the 
> time. 
Until then, I for one would LOVE to know what's happened during
> the day, who won what, who got what - and NOT 'when is the next Court'...
> 
> But, that's just my 2 cents' worth.  Gee - my memory seems to be coming 
> back after all....
> 
> Duchess Arrowyn
> Sage Rampant

My comments were and are suggestions of alternatives to the current 
structure.  If alternatives have been tried and investigated, and the 
way we currently do court is the best we can do, we will have to put up 
with the way things are, even though many people now avoid court 
whenever they can.

I remain,
your obedient servant,
Jehane de Saint Michael