[Artemisia] Spears (longish and somewhat boring)

Fri Oct 8 09:35:44 CDT 2004

Greetings to the list, and especially Ulric.

I'm going to attempt to answer some of your questions and address some of your concerns because I was present for some of the discussion concerning spear length. 

The decision is a result of the allowance and use of 12 foot spears in Artemisia. That was an excellent trial by fire the kingdom conducted concerning any issues associated with the longer spears. There were some observations made about the use of the 12 foot spears and I'll recite some of them if I remember correctly (Ronan, feel free to add/disagree/correct me as you see fit.

The shorter spears are safer for a number of reasons, including but not limited to the following; 

1. The lighter weight mean's less mass to accelerate and therefore less force. I'm not saying I can't crank a 9 foot hard enough to hurt someone if I elected to abandon all concepts of chivalry, but the physics apply. 

2. Fighters being caught un-aware. 12 feet away often means that even though you may see their eyes, there's a hightened chance that you still aren't percieving that person as a threat.

The other reasons the were discussed are:

1. Cost and access. I remember showing up for a fight in Loch Salann with two 12 foot spears and being the only one there with them. I still think they were a very deciding factor in several fights that day. I'm pretty sure every spear jock there was wanting one, but they just aren't easy to get in these lands of Artemisia. Ulric, you discussed your sizable investment and I feel your pain, but the 9 foot limit will mean a lower cost for everyone.

2. Impact on the fighting. It was an observation of mine, that I volunteered in the decision process, that the battles can become very stagnant with twelve foot spears. It seemed like there were more stand-offs occuring because of the additional spear length. This was MY opinion.

3. Universal use. This is important to those on a budget who probably only want to lay the money out for a spear once. You can fight with it in kingdom, take it to Estrella, take it to Pennsic and still be able to use.

4. Proficiency of fighting style. One spear length all the time, no adjusting. I also think this effected safety because I know of at least one occasion when I jacked a 10 foot spear too hard because I was thinking 9 foot range.

As far as communication of the spear length changes I can only offer one thought. This is volunteer based organization, and sometimes getting someone to take the time to update documentation to reflect current standards gets kind of hard. I would only ask that you bear with the marshalette, and talk to your knight marshal.

I can understand your angst on this topic, but the solution seemed to be a good one in my book.

In service, and friendship to Ulric,

Thomas, the mouthy squire... =)

Jeff Webster <red_belt at msn.com> wrote:
Hello and greetings,
I would have responded to these posts yesterday but I was out of town until very late last evening. I will probably ruffle some feathers but here goes: This post started out innocently enough but as it progressed it became o-so apparent that we are sorely lacking in something very fundamental here in Artemisia, communication! Vlad asked a very pertinent question followed by several posts and some information that, to me (and probably not only me) was absolutely brand new. At last I knew (and if I am to believe the current Kingdom of Artemisia Marshallate standards) 10 foot spears were legal in Artemisia. We were different. Different than An Tir who allows 12 foot poles (agreeably very long and unruly) and different than Atenveldt who only allows 9 foot poles. I don't know why we originally thought 10 foot spears were OK but apparently this thought process has changed, Why? Were we trying to be different (in our very Artemisian way) from our mother Kingdom, did we think we were better
 spearman than the rest? Did we just experiment and finally decide to be different? What was the thought process on allowing 10 foot poles initially? And why is it to be changed now? Is it the perception that we, as a fighting contingent cannot handle 10 foot spears? Are we trying to comply with other Kingdoms to standardize the size of spears? (Not in An Tir you don't) making it easier to go to Estrella because we have the same Marshallate standards as they do? Are 10 foot spears more dangerous than 9 foot spears? What was the thought process in this "latest" decision?
Don't get me wrong, I will comply with what ever the "powers to be" decide. I am, however a (paying) member of the SCA, a member of this Kingdom, an authorized fighter in this Kingdom and I think that I have a right to ask these and other questions and to state my displeasure in a decision such as this being made and not informing the populace of it. Because of this lack of communication I am out a fairly large (at least to me) amount of money for no good reason. Anyone who travels to Estrella can pick up 9 foot spears for 20 or 30 bucks and bring them back to Artemisia for no shipping costs. Heck I purchased 2 for myself, 2 for a friend, 2 for my Shire and so on and so on. When I learned that 10 foot spears were legal (and being used in Artemisia) I thought that I would put my 9 footers away for the War and went out, seeking to find 10 foot spears. Guess where I found them, yes..An Tir. A full 20 dollars more (at the time) a piece and almost the spear cost in shipping. I "bit the
 bullet" and coughed up the money for 4 spears so that I could have 10 footers for Artemisia and at least one 12 foot spear for those rare occasions that I traveled to An Tir (ever try to go up against a 12 ft spear when you have a 9, not pretty) Now I am being told that "after much discussion at last Solstice Court" I have to take my 10 foot "corvette model" spear and cut it down to a 9 foot "geo metro" length. Why the hell did I go out and buy the more expensive, whiz bang, touring edition, state of the art, and I might add "legal" 10 ft spear and pay the shipping from another Kingdom when everyone else was buying the stripped down "geo metro" 9 footers that I already have two of ? Now I have to cut a foot off of my spear. Making it a very high priced, over-expensive "geo" 9 footer. I say this not because of the cost involved, but because nothing was ever communicated to the general populace. I am on the Aerie mailing list, and several others. I get the Sage Advice. I talk to
 Knights all of the time. At no time in the last year did anyone tell me or even mention that the Kingdom was thinking about changing the rules on length of spears. Never! What was the big secret? I say "thinking about it" because in my humble opinion, if is says in the Kingdom Marshallate standards that 10 foot spears are allowed, and there has been nothing published to the contrary, then 10 foot spears are allowed. Period. The very first thing that should have been changed was the media Marshallate standards that are posted on the Kingdom home page and a published change in the Sage Advice. If for nothing else, than to keep those good gentles and fighters that are far removed from those whom make these type of decisions informed. Not everyone is "in the know" when it comes to these changes. At this point I must humbly disagree with the good Thomas who wrote that the Marshallate is being "updated" and 10 foot spears are not allowed. Firstly let me say this. If it is not written
 down, it did not happen. If the Marshallate standards now say 10 foot spears and nothing has been published or communicated in a Kingdom wide media format to the contrary, then it has not happened yet. And he made a statement that " the marshals will not let you take a 10 foot spear into combat in our kingdom" and that is false as well. I took a 10 foot spear onto the field for 2 separate days, at Uprising. It was inspected, I played with it, no one told me it was too long, no one took it away, no one even knew it was a 10 footer compared to the 9 footers, except possibly those whom I killed in the battles, no questions were raised. There were 3 others out there. I know because I measured them against mine. So at least 4 , 10 foot spears were at Uprising. The good gentles who asked me to lay my spear against theirs were attempting to see if theirs were shorter than the rest because they were not as "prolific" on the battlefield as they had hoped, raising questions about the length
 of their spears, not the ability of foot soldiers to duck away from their shots. I say all of this because I am dismayed firstly at the change in the length allowance. Why not 10 foot spears? But I am more sorely dismayed at the lack of communication about such an important issue. Important at least to some. If this communication break-down is so apparent in this one isolated issue then what are we to do with the more important issues at hand. Communication is of the utmost importance in anything we do. Communication will make this a great Kingdom. Lack of it will break the back of what I feel is the best Kingdom in the Known World. The issue is not the length of your spear, but how you communicate its length. Selling the length is actually more important than the actual length itself. :) In the future please strive to communicate better, all of us. That is the only way. The only way to make us look, act, and be Great as a Kingdom. No one wants to look foolish. No one wants to feel
 foolish. At this point too many are looking and feeling foolish about this one small incident. Lets not make it a habit.

I stand in service to King and Queen,
Kingdom and Knight...to all of Artemisia

Ulric

Ulric de Dalyhel
proud squire to Sir Decker Hawkeswood
and Seneschal, Kingdom of Artemisia

"Deo et Regi Fidelis"
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