[Artemisia] Second Open Letter Re:Ibrahim and Ileana and the BoD

[Dan S.]

Greetings,

I would agree with Duke Alan (hi btw, LTNS) that this truly is not a case of 
a "severe lack of Chivalry".

Phrases like that often cause situations like this to flare up on a personal 
level that do no good for anyone.

As much as possible, I would like to assure folks that I have contacted the 
players directly. I've had two long phone conversations with Ibrahim and 
spent about an hour on the phone with King Hoegaarden. I've also reprinted 
and distributed the letters that both of these gentlemen published in the 
Outlands Kingdom Newsletter that states each of their positions on this 
issue.

Whether you feel Duke Lycurgus does or doesn't deserve to be re-knighted is 
beside the point at this time. I've had a few very short e-mails from him, 
and that is the full extent of our conversations.

The issue here is whether or not you agree that the BoD should be in charge 
of enforcing unwritten traditions of a Kingdom and sanctioning Crowns for 
'breaking' customs (rather than creating them-which is part of what I think 
a Crowns job is to do).

Remember, no one has disputed whether or not Duke Ibrahim and Duchess Ileana 
broke Kingdom, Society or Mundane Law. The did not. I strongly feel that 
THAT is where the BoD should draw the line at interfering with Kingdoms. I 
do not want my Kingdom (or my former Kingdom) to be 'ruled' by the 
Corporation and deciding who does and does not get peerages while the Crowns 
are relegated to figurehead status.

And that is exactly what we are discussing here. Whether or not the 
Corporation should be meddling in Kingdom level decisions such as Peerage 
elevations. If the BoD rules that Ibrahim and Ileana are to be sanctioned 
because the did not follow the 'tradition' of formally polling the Order in 
the classic style, then what we left with is yet another weakening of the 
Crowns of the SCA.

The standard now is the Crown must consult with the order then make a 
decision based on their own judgment.

What the peers in the Outlands are defacto requiring is that peers must be 
formally polled by the order. Is polling a bad thing? No, it's probably the 
smart thing to do and in hindsight I'm thinking Ibrahim would have done so.

But this is NOT a call for the BoD to make. This is a Kingdom Level issue. 
Not only that, there is clear and precise Outlands Kingdom Law that says 
Ibrahim and Ileana are entitled to a Court of Inquiry and then a Court of 
Chivalry before this matter can be sent up to the BoD. Those Kingdom Laws 
were flagrantly broken in an overzealous rush to punish Their Graces ( 
http://www.outlands.org/Library/lawweb.html#10 ).

This is made all the more obvious with the rejection by the Outlands to 
accept a self-imposed sanction by Ibrahim and Ileana for 2 years upon 
themselves. This would NOT be the Kingdom sanctioning Ibrahim and Ileana, 
which would be  against Corpora, but it would be a Kingdom accepting a 
voluntary apology and penance by a former Crown.

Just to be clear. I'm encouraging people who read this, and especially 
people who know Ibrahim in Artemisia (among others) to write the BoD ( 
Directors at sca.org ) and the Society Seneschal (Seneschal at sca.org ) and tell 
them to exercise their option to NOT get involved in this issue and send it 
back to the Kingdom where it belongs.  If the Kingdom, after a Court of 
Inquiry and a Court of Chivalry (according to Outlands Kingdom Law) decides 
NOT to accept Ibrahim and Ileana's apology and self-sanctioning, and finds 
them in violation of Kingdom Law or Corpora, THEN it is appropriate to send 
the matter up to the BoD for review.

As it stands now, and I hate to disagree with His Grace Alan, but I must 
respectfully do so, if you wait passively while the BoD and the Society 
Seneschal work this out without providing your input, it will be too late to 
do anything AFTER Ibrahim and Ileana are sanctioned.

The time to make your voices heard is NOW, not later. Don't let one 
Kingdom's peers case a ruling that affects ALL the Kingdoms (including 
Artemisia) across the board.

In Service,

Sir Daniel d'Antioche
(formerly known as Dan Halfhand and soon to be heir apparent to the Gryphon 
thrones. Although I'm sure my dad will ONCE AGAIN put some pretender up 
ahead of me about a month or so after he makes his big scor.. I mean is 
Crowned as the rightful King of Artemisia. BUT I'M NOT BITTER!!!!!!)

> Greetings,
>
> In fact, ALL of this is second hand, and is normal in situations like 
> this, facts are omitted.  If you have concerns then contact the BoD 
> directly.  If you have questions, contact the "players" directly. 
> Otherwise, most of us aren't informed enough to have an opinion is this 
> situation.
>
> And to bring up something as having a "severe lack of Chivalry", without 
> having first hand knowledge of the specific situation(s), is hardly called 
> for.
>
> As I stated in another list, everyone involved (and I know all of them, 
> except Duke Lycurgus) is a good and honorable person.  Let's give them 
> time and space to work out a difficult situation.  I belive they would do 
> the same for us if the situation were reversed.
>
> Something to consider.  Not trying to start any fights with anyone.
>
> Duke Alan
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ShadowKnight" <shadow4549 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list" <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Second Open Letter Re:Ibrahim and Ileana and the 
> BoD
>
>
> Konnichi wa,
>
> As a former baronial seneschal this seems to me to smack of a severe lack 
> of Chivalry. This is an internal kingdom matter to Outlands rather than 
> Corporate. And "Scapegoating" is just what is happening here. I don't know 
> this Duke Loki, wouldn't know him if he showed at an event and was 
> standing in front of me, don't know what he did to bring about his 
> relinguishing his belt, but to make such a large issue of "bringing him 
> out of retirement" that is going to possibly have inter-kingdom 
> consequences is decidely unchivalrous. Where in the Code of Chivalry or 
> the Code of Bushido is this sort of action condoned? No where that I have 
> seen in my studies. There is a saying about how you can't make all the 
> people happy all the time. How many of the Chivalry have agreed completely 
> on each and every Knighting in any Kingdom?
>
> This action is going to have other unexpected consequences as well for the 
> Outlands. Estrella treaty time should be interesting this year.
> Just a few thoughts on this situation.
>
> Domo arigato,
> Minamoto Genkuro Kagetane
>
>
>
>
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