[Artemisia] For Dicussion - College of Heraldry return in 2000

[Jacquie Ziegler]

Stephanae Baker wrote:
> For amusement, I thought I'd bring up an old College Heraldry return  
> that I stumbled across in the sca.org/heraldry archives. It seems of  
> particular interest to me since it was submitted by a barony in our  
> kingdom. Anyway, here goes:
>
> Arn Hold, Barony of. Order name Order of Le Pomme d'Or and badge.  
> Purpure, an apple Or.
>
>      Conflict with the Palme d'Or, the award for best film at the  
> Cannes Film Festival. As one of the very few international awards  
> known in America, we consider it important enough to protect, and  
> there is insufficent difference in sounce between Pomme and Palme.
>
>      The badge conflicts with Adelicia Gilwell, An apple Or. There is  
> only a single CD for fieldlessness. (01/2000)
>
>
>
> First of all, I'd like to say that overall I appreciate the College  
> of Heralds for attempting to ensure that when we go to the trouble to  
> register our names and devices, they are protected. For example, I  
> fully support their protection of Adelicia Gilwell's arms. But, to me  
> (a French speaker) the word pomme sounds very unlike the word palme-- 
> they have completely different vowel sounds, and there's no l in  
> pomme--and when I hear them, they conjure completely different images  
> in my head. It's kind of like saying that "The Golden Poem" and "The  
> Golden Palm" are the same in English. In addition, I think the French  
> speakers who organize the Cannes Film Festival would laugh at this  
> protection rather than appreciating it, not because they take their  
> intellectual property lightly, but because, they too, would hear  
> these words completely differently. I doubt that if they heard "pomme  
> d'or," they'd even make a connection in their thoughts to "palme  
> d'or." Pomme and palme are everyday words that do NOT sound alike.
>
> So anyway . . . thoughts?
>
> Belladonna
>   
Thank you for a fair and objective comment - it is much appreciated.

For the 'sounds like' the standard that has generally been applied is to 
have speakers who are not conversant in the language say the two words. 
In 2000, the person making the name decisions was Elsbeth Anne Roth, 
Laurel. This is before the office of Pelican Sovereign was created to 
help with the name decision process.

I happen to know that on her staff for those meetings was the current 
Pelican, Margaret Makafee. I believe that the pronunciation of 'pomme' 
and 'palme' as you stated is correct for linguists like Margaret, but 
for those of us with little to no French language training, they do 
sound distressingly similar.

I would pronounce 'pomme' as if there was only one m - p short o m - 
while I would pronounce 'palme' with an aspirated l - p short a just a 
hint of an l m. This is very close and personally I tend to agree with 
this return.

However, if you feel that the pronunciation issue raised is in error, an 
appeal can always be drafted for the current Pelican to decide on. If 
you or your Barony wants to go this route, contact me privately so I can 
assist you in the proper form of write up for this.

Baroness Shauna