[Artemisia] Re: lathe string

Wed Jan 10 18:40:31 CST 2007

Ok im a dummy i  missed the part about this being a model lathe .for some reason when i opened the other message it  had a quote of part of the original question.This being the case i would use a soften piece of rawhide lace or as mentioned in the other post linen thread. if you can still find it cotten trot line or macrama jute might also work. you can soft raw hide by working back and forth over the edge of a work bench or some thing simular ( think wire saw motion)
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Today's Topics:

1. RE: Cord Question (Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil)
2. RE: Cord Question (Aghren the Brus)
3. Re: RE: Cord Question (Michael the Loud)
4. Re: Cord Question (Catherine Helm-Clark)

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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:27:03 -0700
From: Lord Godwin FitzGilbert de Strigoil 
Subject: [Artemisia] RE: Cord Question
To: artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
Message-ID: <1365.1168396023 at cableone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

There are some sources for good irish linen thread that is unwaxed. I'll see if I
can find my samples, and let you know the company.

Godwin

>> Perhaps waxed linen thread? Like what you might use
>> for sewing heavy leather?
>
>That's an idea. Might still have the problem with how
>it feels as the competition bowstring material is also
>waxed. Maybe I can find an unwaxed thread that will
>hold up. Thanks!
>
>Michael

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:46:30 +0000
From: "Aghren the Brus" 
Subject: RE: [Artemisia] Cord Question
To: artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Leather lacing might hold against the heat. Leather was what was used for 
power transmission in the early days. I am thinking of the flat lacing for 
leatherwork, not bootlaces. Splicing would probably be your weak point. A 
well glued double-taper would be my suggestion on that.

When I was picturing this lathe in my mind, I saw v-belt sheaves with string 
running through them. For leather drive-belting you should use a conveyer 
belt-like smooth pulley. To keep the belt centered it should be slightly 
(smoothly) crowned - like a 1 degree slope from center so the center 
diameter is slightly greater than the edge diameter (imagine a pop can that 
froze and bulged).
Additiionly, v-sheaves create heat. That why v-belts are so hi-tech (to 
resist the heat).

Leather belting will probably glaze and harden with use which might make it 
slip. To counteract this you need a belt dressing. A common leather belt 
dressing in this applicatiion is bees wax-based and is available 
commercially thru industrial supply stores (but a tube would be 27-lifetime 
supply for you). Rubbing the lacing with plain beeswax would work.

Another item that would work (even on v-sheaves) - an o-ringsized to fit. 
Not period, doesn't look period, but it would turn wood.

Good luck,

Aghren the Brus

>From: Michael the Loud 
>Reply-To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list 
>
>To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list 
>Subject: RE: [Artemisia] Cord Question
>Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:40:47 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Problem is I'm building a 1/4 scale model of the
>springpole lathe Roy Underhill uses in his show. On a
>full sized model you don't get the problems with heat
>and stress that you get on a miniture version.
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:06:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael the Loud 
Subject: Re: [Artemisia] RE: Cord Question
To: archergodwin at cableone.net, Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list

Message-ID: <107783.66134.qm at web32513.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

KEWL! Thanks!

Michael

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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:53:58 -0700
From: Catherine Helm-Clark 
Subject: [Artemisia] Re: Cord Question
To: artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

It is simply a matter of picking the right material for the job.
You need a thin line with high tensile strength that's
capable of not losing strength with increasing temperature.
If I remember that lathe set-up correctly, it looks to me that
while size was scaled, the tensile stress of the spring/pole
mechanism did not. I don't find this very surprising since
the force of the pole may scale linearly but the stress in the
line scales by 1/r^2 where r is the diameter of the line/string.
So if you apply a force of 100 lb to a rope of 1/4" diameter,
the tensile stress is 1600 psi. But if you scale by 1/4 and
apply a 25 lb force to a rope/string with 1/16" diameter, the
tensile stress will be 6400 psi - tensile strength that most
natural-fiber rope or cord can not withstand. In the real
world, you would have to go to fatter line or change
materials to steel. This is probably not an option for a 1/4
scale lathe.

I would not recommend industrial-grade hemp as a line
material for you high tensile stress application (Holy Moo!
I'm sounding like a marketroid! HELP!). Hemp is inferior
to the synthetic fibers or even jute as a material for line.
It can catch on fire from friction in hawsers (I've seen this
happen), it has mediocre tensile strength compared to
other rope fibers and it rots in a second. On old boats, it
was common to coat it with tar to keep it from rotting when
used as stays. Flax has better tensile strength and it does
not have the rotting problems of hemp, but it's expensive
and it is hard to find as a rope fiber in the US. It's also is
easy to catch on fire in high friction applications, just like
hemp.

Personally, I would not use a waxed natural fiber like
linen for a lathe. What's the wax going to do here? It
does not improve the tensile strength of the fiber at all.
It might increase the coefficient of static friction (gripping
power) at room temperature, but with the first few turns
of the lathe, the wax will heat up and act as a lubricant
instead. Get it hot enough and you've just lit it up like
candle wick. Come to think of it, that is what period
candle wicking was... In the world of fire forensics, wax
is considered an accelerant. Ever see those barbeque
fire starter sticks that don't use some form of volatile
liquid petroleum derivative? They're woodpulp sticks
impregneated with wax.

I suspect that good latigo lacing would do a good job. As
a high quality leather, latigo has good tensile strength. The
problem would be maintenance here. Leather is actually a
felt. You need to keep the organic molecules that bind the
felted organic stringy bits hydrated - and in leather, you do
this adding fats or by sealing the leather insides from the
outside world or both. But this is kinda silly for a lace which
is not intended to last forever in the first place - not to mention
that it would be a chore. I suppose you could go down to
CalRanch or the Leather Factory shop and buy a bundle
of latigo lacing and just replace the laces that broke on the
lathe as you used it. Considering the application, your rate
of breaking down the fiber bits and dehydrating the interior
structure of the leather would be much faster than usual.
Leather is a good material for rotating machinery applications.
Most drive belts in the 18th and 19th centuries used to be made
out of leather - just make sure you use leather with the correct
tanning or tawing, which in this case would be latigo or veg
tanned with an oil retanning. It will be pricey though since the
last tannery in the US that made latigo went out of business
in the 90s - so all the oil tanned leather these days is an
import. I suspect that a high tensile strength fiber would be a
better choice here in terms of tensile strength and wear and
overall cost.

Some of the newer synthetics don't look bad but they
usually don't look natural. Most of the nylon and dacron
lines are shiney. Kevlar is always that disgusting puke
yellow color and it won't dye. Rayon is often black, shiny
white or this weird split-end waxy yellow. On top of this,
most of the synthetic fibers made specifically for strength
(i.e. not for clothing) don't dye worth a damn. They're all
polymers with no room in their structures for the extra
cations that usually impart color to idiochromatic materials.

I'm not too sure if you can get artificial sinew in any colors
other than brown or black, but it would probably work great
if the color and look were compatible with your going for a
material that wasn't blatantly modern-looking. It has
superior tensile strength compared to natural fibers, though
there are a lot of other synthertic fibers with better tensile
strength.

After having given this problem some thought, personally
I would try Gorilla Tough brand braided fishing line.
Extremely high tensile strength. By design to be used for
reeling out on really big high velocity fish like halibut and
swordfish so it can take the heat of friction on the rod hoops
and reel of a large ocean-grade fishing set up. And it's a
braided line, not mono-filiment like a lot of fly-fishing lines,
so it looks natural. It comes in only one color: grey. It's not
the light straw brown of flax or the darker brown of hemp or
jute but it's not the usual artificial green of a lot of other fishing
lines, braided or otherwise, and it's not the obnoxious shiny
white of nylon boat line. It's a relatively unobtrusive grey and
it doesn't look like a shiney synthetic. Hop down to the local
fishing-addict hang-out, eyeball a spool of the stuff and see if
you like the look.

Consider trying horse hair if you have any cooperative
horsey firends. In period, fishing line was made out of
white tail hairs from a female horse. I suspect color is not
important, since white was specified because fish had a
hard time seeing it, but the gender is possibly essential.

That's just my two schillings worth.

ttfn
Therasia

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End of Artemisia Digest, Vol 40, Issue 10
*****************************************

Sincerly,
Don Tate

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