[Artemisia] Richard the Lionheart

[Chuck Heisler Jr.]

Dear Morgan, 
   
  Just some defining,  I think pederast means 'boy lover', not homosexual.  I would certainly be interested in any documentation you might have that confirms Richards homosexuality.  In point of fact, I'd like to see any documentation from period that speaks to his sexuality (regardless) at all.
   
  So, if Richards sexuality has anything to do with his place in history, then it has a place in our discussion, otherwise, lets try and judge him by recorded and verifiable facts.
   
  Conrad von Z.

morgan wolf <morganblaidddu at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Actually, I don't think the notions of gay and staright have changed all that much. It is noted in more than one document from the time that Richard was a "pederast", indicating in this case that he preferred sex with men. In fact, it has been posited that other than their wedding night, Richard never had sex with his wife. Most of what I've read indicates that the authors (usually monks) were amazed that Richard, who committed such a blatant sin with regularity, was also obviously favored by God on the battlefield. In fact, one could *almost* say that Richard was one of the first gay rights advocates (along the lines of "if you don't like it, let's fight and see who's right"). As for the "win a battle but never a war", remember that the whole "war" over the western half of France went on for centuries, with no real winners.

For a great picture of Richard as a person, read Sharon Kay Penman's "Here Be Dragons".

Morgan

Side note- having heard for years the statement that the bible says that homosexuality is a mortal sin, I actually took the time to read the entire section of Ecclesiastes that refers to it, in the actual Tanakh (the Old Testament, in the original hebrew form). If you go back to the beginning, " a man who lies with a man" is listed in the "unclean acts" section, for which the resolution is a ritual bath. So in reality, the bible doesn't say homosexuals are damned to hell, it just says they should take a shower and pray before going to church, and that only applies to men, lesbians are just fine as they are. :-D

----- Original Message ----
From: Tamar Black Sea 
To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list 
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2007 11:21:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Richard the Lionheart


The accountant in me is sputtering in frustration, "but, but, but didn't 
they get tired of having to pay several king's ransoms to bail Richard 
out of jail?"

Didn't they notice that he could win a battle but never a war?

Doesn't somebody want the king to be around to actually
do the job once in a while?

My modern sensibilities are reeling :-)

Oh...and one last thought. I would guess that the medieval concept of 
"gay" and "straight" might have been very different from our modern 
notion. Wouldn't that have at least partly explained why the fact that 
Richard was gay was ignored. Additionally, he would hardly have been the 
only king who didn't know, didn't like, and didn't spend much time with 
his wife.

Thank you Morgan for your very well informed response. One of my 
daughters is cheering.

YIS,
Tamar



____________________________________________________________________________________
The fish are biting. 
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
_______________________________________________
Artemisia mailing list
Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
http://lists.gallowglass.org/mailman/listinfo/artemisia


       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.