[Artemisia] "Live" steel while riding?

[Freydis the Good]

Re-Posted with Permission!  Please take a look!

*********************************************************************************************


Subject: [SCA_KEO] "live" steel while riding?
------------------------

From: midzor <midzor at avatarcomputing.com>
Reply-To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 7:17 AM


Here's a new question for discussion. Is it all right for someone to
ride with a "real" sword for appearance/looks/great pictures? They
will not be using it for any horse games, but mearly want to ride with
their real sword to take some great pictures and look good.

My first inclination is yes...the rider is advanced, an accomplished
horse person, and we also regulaly ride with sharp spikes for pig
sticking, javalin throwing, ring spearing, etc. So I don't see any
additional risk in this.

The only reason I bring it up is because of the "no live steel on the
field" rule that has been drummed into my head since my SCA birth.
Which brings me to ask...how did we get around that with all our pointy
weapons we use?

Arabella
Caid

****************************************************************************

From: Patricia Cross <trish at joustinghill.org>
Reply-To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 7:53 AM


On Oct 23, 2007, at 9:17 AM, midzor wrote:
The only reason I bring it up is because of the "no live steel on the
field" rule that has been drummed into my head since my SCA birth.
Which brings me to ask...how did we get around that with all our pointy
weapons we use?


Because we're not on the heavy weapons field with our live steel, so
their rules don't apply to us.

-Eleanor




****************************************************************************
From: drwisealexis <wiselaw at comcast.net>
Reply-To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 8:51 AM


Morning all, I'll see if I can take a stab at this one.

The 'traditional rule' of 'no live steel' is found in the Rules of the
List, which are found in Corpora, and reprinted in the Marshal's
Handbook. (for sake of clarity, I'll use the term 'real weapons' which
is how it is referred to in the rules).

That rule is:

8. Fighting with real weapons, whether fast or slow, is strictly
forbidden at any Society event. This rule does not consider approved
weaponry which meets the Society and Kingdom standards for traditional
Society combat and/or Society period rapier combat, used in the
context of mutual sport, to be real weaponry.

That rule is further elaborated on in the Marshals Handbook with the
following clarification:

Application of Rule 8: Since fighting with real weapons is forbidden
at any Society event, threatening the use of such weapons is likewise
expressly forbidden.
At the discretion of the Sovereign and the Marshal in Charge,
recognized experts may be permitted to present choreographed
demonstrations with real weapons under strictly controlled conditions.
No one may wear any real weapon onto the field while participating in
combat or present during combat. At the discretion of the Sovereign
and the Marshal in Charge, an exception may be made for marshals or
other noncombatants to wear knives bonded with peace straps.
Posing for still photographs with real weapons is permitted.

So, looking at Rule 8 and the Application of Rule 8 and applying them
to your questions, I would interpret it as follows:

You can not only ride with a steel sword, but you can use it for
mounted games, as long as it's edges and tip are blunted. This is
assuming the course designer has no objection to using it on their
equipment, of course [simple courtesy still governs, after all :)]

The reasoning is found in the rules themselves. There is no
prohibition of real weapons from the field per se, just no real
weapons 'while participating in combat or present during combat'.
Engaging in equestrian activities is not 'participating in combat',
therefore the whole prohibition doesn't apply.

What we are doing is engaging in mounted games, which isn't combat.
To that extent, there is a rule that specifically addresses the weapon
requirements for both single handed weapons and spears found in the
new handbook under Part IV Equipment Standards:

IV.A.2.(a)(4) Mounted Games. Riders may use hand held weapons made of
non-brittle materials. All tips and edges should be blunted.

IV.A.2.(b)(2) Spears and javelins
a. May be up to 9 feet in total length.
b. Spears and javelins may be equipped with metal tips.

Hope that helps clarify. If my interpretation is off, I'm sure Yaas
will call me on it ;)

Regards,

Alexis

p.s. Almost like this was considered as the new handbook was being
drafted ;)
p.p.s. I'll admit I also got spoiled riding at Hastings with 90 other
steel wielding riders charging into a 1000 person steel wielding saxon
army :) All without incident.

****************************************************************************

From: Donna DeBonis, DVM <drdonna at pioneernet.net>
Reply-To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
To: SCA_KEO at yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, Oct 23, 2007 at 12:56 PM

I agree with Alexis.

I guess the only other concern that I can see is whether a person is
riding on to the field to compete, but has a real 'dress dagger'
strapped on their belt for show. Given that Alexis was very clear that
we are talking about using the weapons, not wearing them, I just want
to clarify, that wearing them may be considered a different issue. In
other words, if the dagger bounces out of the sheath, then falls on
the ground it could get stepped  on by horse or person.  I feel pretty
good about carrying a weapon in hand, cause theoretically, I can
control it; not sure if I would grant the same level of control to a
dagger strapped on for show.

So, the original question was :  "live" steel while riding?


and I think maybe a better question is 'can we use live steel when
riding?'  If that is the question, then , Alexis gave a great answer
explaining how the rules would support that use.

OTOH, if wearing "live" steel while riding? is the question then I
have to say that I would not support that we wear it for show while
competing.  I expect that some folks will make a case for saying that
if it can be proved that the real weapon is secure, then it should be
allowed.

;'>

Donwenna







-- 
SMILES!!!
THL Freydis

~The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything;
they just make the best of everything they have.~