[Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)

[Dan Sena]

It would help people understand and comply with this ruling if the why 
and wherefore of said ruling was explained.

When you submit armory what is being registered is the actual depiction 
you colored, NOT the text explaining the armory.  If the two do not 
match when they get to Laurel, the text (Blazon) is adjusted to match 
the picture (emblazon).  So having the colors be stable is critical.  
Also, wax based forms like art pencils, crayons, etc melt and smear.  
There are examples of said forms of coloring melting in the mail and 
ruining all the forms in a submissions packet.  (Think sitting in a 
mailbox in the sun on a summer day).

   The reason Crayola Classic markers are recommended is that the color 
stays what was put on the paper for a long time.  If the Laurel office 
has to do an actual comparison ten years down the road (like to your 
registered arms compared to a new submission) the green will still be 
green, the yellow yellow etc.

   98% of computer printing the colors migrate over time - sometimes as 
little as 6 months!  Yellow becomes brown, Red, Pink etc.  Thus why 
computer printed color is not allowed.  All heralds will celebrate when 
this is no longer an issue!

in 2009 a herald by the name of Tecangel Bach in An Tir published a 
"marker test" to the SCA-HERALDS newsgroup, which has been posted to the 
SCA Heraldry Chat Facebook group files section.  I will add it to the 
bottom of this post.

PLEASE Understand - submissions heralds know they are in a customer 
service position.  None of them like having to reject submissions, and 
do not do so for arbitrary reasons.

HL Brendan ap Llewelyn
former Kingdom Consulting Herald, An TIr

=======================================================

From: Teceangl
Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Subject: Markers, markers, markers
To: SCAHRLDS at listserv.aol.com

The question of markers came up again and I did another post about it. 
Figured I'd share generally, feel free to pass the info around or give 
your own opinions.  Apologies for the US-centric viewpoint, but the 
American market is the only one I'm in a position to tap. :)

Crayola is still the best, but stay away from the gimmick stuff. 
Flip-Tops and Twistables both have different ink shades than Classic 
(washable or non), Flip-Tops break and Twistables dry out. However the 
Click-On set that chain together are fine, and fun to play with between 
clients.

Foohy brand is the next best and indeed, might actually edge out Crayola 
in red durability. Problem is many of the Foohy markers are scented. 
Great grape purple, though.

Colorific are terrific. There are days I think they might supplant 
Crayola as the industry standard if made more available. Great heraldic 
colors, fantastic durability, good price, one in washable and non, wide 
and narrow tips. The red is a traffic-stopper. And unlike Crayola, the 
no-caps clicker markers do as they're supposed to. Mine are two years 
old with no sign of drying yet.

Prang classic colors are very good as well with extremely true colors.

E-color-gy cost a bit more but are totally green. The product ranks up 
with Prang in color trueness and durability.

Rose Art are very good but beware that the green is dark enough to have 
contrast problems with other colors with regard to complex lines, and 
the purple tends too much toward magenta to be safe for submissions. 
Great durability, though.

Sharpie has fit coloring markers that are NOT worth the cost. The 
'purple' is true magenta so unusable for heraldry, the blue is so dark 
it leeches into adjoining colors and confuses with black, and while 
they're durable the caps hate to close (or open) so they dry out too fast.

Faber-Castell isn't worth the cost, but okay if they're what you already 
have. Great colors and they last fine but they're priced for artists.

Pentel are a good, solid brand with durability but watch out for a 
too-dark green if using on a divided color-color field as it melds into 
the blue or black with lousy contrast (lousier than usual, that is).

Mr. Sketch has good, durable colors as well, and a decent price. 
Recommended.

Busykids is durable, but the blue and green are 'offf' colors so should 
only be used in 2-tincture armory so as to not blur color lines.

Rose Art has slipped terribly in the last three years. I used to 
recommend them but many of the colors have become more fugitive than 
before. I have a test sheet from 2002 with Rose Art ink that's still 
parsable, I have one from last year where the red, yellow and green have 
faded to impossibly paleness.

Color Gear is the same manufacturer as Rose Art but for some reason its 
red is a bit better.

Western Family come from my grocery store and I highly recommend them. 
Cheap, durable. But be careful of the caps, they're those long ones you 
have to shove down to get to click but if you shove too hard you split them.

Bic is sad. real sad. Such a good name, such a lousy product. I went 
through three boxes before I got one that hadn't dried up in the store 
(month-old shipment according to the manager, and I'd never seen them 
before so I believe him). Priced for the brand name, colors terribly 
fugitive (as in if they go from 30 to 75 degrees in one day, they fade).

Colorations. I can't get these things, but wish I could. They're as good 
as Prang with excellent colors and good durability.

Schoastic are _awesome_. Really excellent colors, great coverage, 
durable as all get out. Pricey, though. Highly recommended.

Disney brand. Yuck. No black in the pack, the blue looks weird, the red 
dries out in a month under temperature-controlled conditions.

Color View is liquid ink, not soaked into felt. Don't bother, they won't 
last a month.

Sargent Art has an orangey red, grayish purpure, and yellow that goes 
splotchy over time. Not worth it.

Sandylion, the sticker people, put out Disney branded markers under the 
names 'princess' and 'fairy' colors. Ignore those but if you can get a 
Cars pack, grab em! (I got mine at the dollar store.) All the heraldic 
tinctures, bold colors, and when I bought my pack I promptly lost it in 
the car. In June. I found it in December. They're as good as the day I 
bought them.

Color Club (by Pentech). I get these at Dollar tree and pray they're 
always available. These are the best-kept secret of the marker world. 
Ten colors, two blues, both suitable for heraldry. Minty green you can 
go nebuly against purple or azure with and lose no detail. Perfect 
yellow, absolutely excellent purple. True black. The red's a tad light 
so go over it twice. They don't last as long as the more high-end 
markers, but they're not as big, either. Durable, lasting colors, 
survive temperature changes in the pan or on paper. Highly recommended.


And a word on washable markers. ask any parent of a toddler just how 
easily they come off porous surfaces (like siblings).  Paper is not a 
surface that things are meant to be washed off of. Washable markers have 
different pigment make-up and so might have colors that are a bit 
lighter than non-washable, but they're true to color (the blue looks 
blue, not aqua, etc.) and they WILL stay on the paper under normal 
handling. Drop a Laurel packet into a puddle and even the staunchest 
Crayola wanders off ij the wet.  No nonsense about avoiding washable 
markers, okay? If the colors go on true and don't fade in a week, use them.

All the markers mentioned above have been at least basic tested by me. 
This includes test sheets being pinned to the side of the house all 
winter, test sheets getting tossed around the car and exposed to sun and 
radical temperature changes, test sheets going through the dishwasher 
(nothing's ever survived), being taken to events in a plastic box, 
having mock-up submission forms sent to Texas, California, and back to 
Portland, and being used for real-life SCA heraldic submissions.







On 7/15/2013 7:04 AM, Dave Dudley wrote:
> Being one of the ones who had theirs rejected for crayon coloring (their
> words, actually used art pencils) I can speak a little to this.  My device
> was submitted in early 2012, went through a local herald, kingdom heraldic
> process, made it Society level and sat there for several months.  I only
> heard back in April 2013 because the local heralds kept looking it up (and
> of course got my system notification yesterday).  It is a very discouraging
> process for it to go through all that to finally come back rejected for the
> coloring (and the only reason given).  And being it was only a few months
> after they made the decision on no wax I'm betting it was a training issue
> more than anything.  Yes, our local officers are awesome and Juliana is
> right on in that this process is very outdated.... to the point of being
> very broken and not friendly (and that isn't the only thing in society
> procedures).  And probably the reason I have only heard bad stories out of
> the process.  Well now mine can be added as well along with an attitude of
> not wanting to even resubmit.
>
> Máté
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Jackman-Brink, Julia <
> Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu> wrote:
>
>> Our kingdom and local officers rock on a grand scale (you all know who you
>> are), but I have to admit, rejecting a submission because of computer
>> printed colors?  Considering in this modern age you can set your printer or
>> Photoshop program to the exact color specs for the Crayola brand of markers
>> this should be a no brainer.  Bring in the fact all the Heralds forms are
>> electronic, and the Heralds are requiring forms be sent back electronically
>> too. With the push from Society to become more paperless, why are we still
>> dealing with an interim paper and rescan process at all?  Would be much
>> easier to bring up the required file, fill in the device (there are
>> electronic versions of most of the heraldic charges, see cut and paste),
>> color your file with a couple clicks in Word or Photoshop, hit save, email
>> the lot to your respective Kingdom officer or upload it to OSCAR.  No paper
>> shuffling, no stamps, no extra cost or storage for coloring supplies
>> either.  If a paper copy is needed at a certain level, that officer can hit
>> print.  It seems to me that they are just perpetuating outdated methods and
>> ultimately creating more work for a bunch of folk.
>>
>> HE Juliana  (not a Herald btw).
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
>> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of morgan wolf
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:27 AM
>> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>>
>> I really, REALLY try to support my Kingdom Officers, and even more so
>> support my SCA family in their offices, but rejecting because they used the
>> wrong crayons?  That strikes me as utterly ridiculous, and a real good
>> reason to not bother with registration.  Having said that, I realize that
>> this is a Laurel Sovereign/BoD level rule, not something our wonderful
>> Kingdom Heralds would do to us, which I appreciate.
>>
>> Morgan
>>
>>
>> Baron Morgan Blaidd Du,
>> GHA(2), CQC, PCA, CCH;
>> Protege and Ghillie to Baron Master James Ulrich MacKellar, OL OP; and
>> Baroness Mistress Rachel Ashton, OP
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald
>>> <principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>>> To: Aerie <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:21 PM
>>> Subject: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>>> READ)
>>>
>>>
>>> All,
>>> Below are a couple important notes for those who have recently
>>> submitted heraldry or who are planning on submitting heraldry soon.
>>> Please pass this on and cross post in any appropriate locations.
>> Notifications.
>>> Our new Golden Pillar, THL Sine has sent out a number of notifications
>>> this weekend, clearing a bit of a backlog. If you have had a submission
>>> in the last year or so and have not heard anything, check your e-mail.
>>> Also, have your local Herald check their mail, as she has updated the
>>> notification system to let them know when an approval or rejection has
>>> been sent for an individual.
>>>
>>> Many thanks to THL Sine for what she has done in her short time in this
>>> office.
>>>
>>> Heraldry Rejections.
>>>
>>> There have been two major causes for Heraldry rejections in the last year.
>>>
>>> 1) Use of wax pencil (colored pencil)/crayon/colored ink from a
>>> printer. DO NOT use these mediums to color your device. The Laurel
>>> meetings in May of
>>> 2011 determined these were cause for return, and your device will be
>>> returned. Instead, please use Crayola Classic Markers (not the washable
>>> ones). The 8 count box should have all the right tinctures.
>>>
>>> 2) New Submission Standards. As of May 2012, the Laurel has phased out
>>> the old submissions standards (RfS) and has instituted The Standards
>>> for Evaluation of Names and Armory (SENA)
>> http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html.
>>> All new submissions and resubmissions must comply with these standards.
>>> Please review these standards.
>>>
>>> One of the changes that seems to be causing rejection is "The charges
>>> within a charge group should be in either identical
>>> postures/orientations or an arrangement that includes
>>> posture/orientation (in cross, combatant, or in pall points outward,
>>> for example). A charge group in which postures for different charges
>>> must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period examples
>> of that combination of postures."
>>> Basically, you cannot have a charge oriented in a different direction
>>> than any other charges on a device.
>>>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me
>>> directly at principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org.
>>>
>>> YIS
>>> Dunkr Ormrhandleggr
>>>
>>> Golden Wing Herald
>>> _______________________________________________