[Artemisia] Is modern raw silk period?

[julia.jackman-brink]

Ellen Stavash wrote:

> Well, I've never found any evidence that what most Artemisians call 
> "raw silk" (silk noil) was ever imported to Europe.  I suspect that 
> the leftovers from silk reeling, as well as broken or wild cocoons, 
> were spun into an irregularly textured cloth for domestic use, just 
> as is done in villages throughout Asia today (why waste good strong 
> fiber?) but I don't think it was ever considered to be a trade good. 

I agree, I think 'noil' as we see it didn't become a profitable trade 
good until well later.  The later commercial looms probably helped to 
scrape up all the leftovers and seconds. I have seen some recent silk 
textile 'remains' that have a look like noil, but one has to take into 
account what being buried, flooded, crushed and decay does to plant and 
animal fibers. Even the archaeologist wasn't too sure.

> If anyone out there has evidence to the contrary, I'm eager to hear it.  

There are new finds of textiles coming out in print, I think we just 
need to get them read and interpreted. Personally, I'm waiting for my 
copy of "Woven into the Ground" a book on the Greenland Excavation 
textiles.  I have the new Birka Texile book too, which is REALLY GOOD.

> I believe the other type of "raw silk", which is actually smooth reeled 
> silk that hasn't had the sericin (natural glue) removed, is period, 
> although I don't remember sources offhand.  This is a smooth, stiff 
> fabric that has no resemblance to the bumpy silk noil, but in most 
> textile literature, it is referred to as raw, or undegummed.  

I think that is what I think of as "Raw" more like unprocessed. It's 
that whole period vs modern definition thing again.

> Personally, I still use silk noil a lot, because I like its weight 
> and drape.  I use it as a substitute for the very fine wools that 
> were worn in our period, but which are now more expensive than the silk.  That doesn't mean it's authentic, though.  

I wear it also.  I think given the nature of what we are doing it is an 
acceptable choice.  I would hope that a person would choose what is 
acceptable for their particular time period, but I am also well aware of 
the cost and availablity of fabrics for SCA use.  Sometimes you hve to 
go with what you have.

> As far as textile websites go, I don't know of any with a good overview.
> I'm hoping that others on the list will come up with some good ones, 
> because I'm eager to check them out.  I've run across more specific ones,
> though, such as Viking textiles and the Fustat textiles (Medieval 
> Egyptian and Indian printed cottons), but I don't have them bookmarked 
> anymore.


I'd be willing to do some database searching but I'll need more specific 
information. Manyof the Archaeological Databases are subject or 
placename oriented.

Kudos to Conrad for starting an interesting discussion! :)

Juliana