[Artemisia] Artemisia Digest, Vol 118, Issue 10
Jeanine Schlauch
jeanines at cableone.net
Mon Jul 15 11:40:11 CDT 2013
so, when researching potential conflicts, someone up at Society level
actually has to paw through boxes and boxes of submissions?
They don't have electronic copies tied into a searchable database for their
research? Really?
Morgan
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:18 AM, <artemisia-request at lists.gallowglass.org>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
> (Golden Wing Principal Herald)
> 2. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
> (Golden Wing Principal Herald)
> 3. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
> (Jackman-Brink, Julia)
> 4. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ) (Dan Sena)
> 5. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
> (Jackman-Brink, Julia)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald <principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
> To: Aerie <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:50:34 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
> I have scanned some replies to this and would like to not that this is NOT
> a Kingdom rule, we are just passing the rules along. This is coming down
> from the Laurel level (society). The reasoning behind this being that they
> (the Laurel) are required to store a hard copy of all submissions, and what
> is being reported down to us is that wax is melting when in storage. Also,
> printer ink fades after 2-3 years. The Crayola markers are staying true
> color.
>
> If you have concerns with these rules, please feel free to contact me off
> list.
>
> I know there is a LOT of frustration out there right now regarding
> rejection (being one of the people who's device was rejected in the last
> year for this reason and the new orientation rules).
>
> We are not making these rules at the Kingdom level to make things
> difficult. I am passing the rules that have come down to us to try to make
> things easier for everyone.
>
> Once again, if you have concerns with or questions about the rules, please
> contact me off list at principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org.
>
> YIS
> Dunkr Ormrhandleggr
> Golden Wing
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald <principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
> To: Aerie <Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:10:40 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
> All respondents so far have been replied to in private.
>
> Dunkr
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Jackman-Brink, Julia" <Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu>
> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:12:56 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
> Thanks Dunkr. :) -- Juliana
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of Golden Wing
> Principal Herald
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:11 AM
> To: Aerie
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
>
> All respondents so far have been replied to in private.
>
> Dunkr
> _______________________________________________
> Artemisia mailing list
> Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
> http://lists.gallowglass.org/mailman/listinfo/artemisia
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dan Sena <arghun at gmail.com>
> To: artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:04:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
> It would help people understand and comply with this ruling if the why and
> wherefore of said ruling was explained.
>
> When you submit armory what is being registered is the actual depiction
> you colored, NOT the text explaining the armory. If the two do not match
> when they get to Laurel, the text (Blazon) is adjusted to match the picture
> (emblazon). So having the colors be stable is critical. Also, wax based
> forms like art pencils, crayons, etc melt and smear. There are examples of
> said forms of coloring melting in the mail and ruining all the forms in a
> submissions packet. (Think sitting in a mailbox in the sun on a summer
> day).
>
> The reason Crayola Classic markers are recommended is that the color
> stays what was put on the paper for a long time. If the Laurel office has
> to do an actual comparison ten years down the road (like to your registered
> arms compared to a new submission) the green will still be green, the
> yellow yellow etc.
>
> 98% of computer printing the colors migrate over time - sometimes as
> little as 6 months! Yellow becomes brown, Red, Pink etc. Thus why
> computer printed color is not allowed. All heralds will celebrate when
> this is no longer an issue!
>
> in 2009 a herald by the name of Tecangel Bach in An Tir published a
> "marker test" to the SCA-HERALDS newsgroup, which has been posted to the
> SCA Heraldry Chat Facebook group files section. I will add it to the
> bottom of this post.
>
> PLEASE Understand - submissions heralds know they are in a customer
> service position. None of them like having to reject submissions, and do
> not do so for arbitrary reasons.
>
> HL Brendan ap Llewelyn
> former Kingdom Consulting Herald, An TIr
>
> ==============================**=========================
>
> From: Teceangl
> Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:12 AM
> Subject: Markers, markers, markers
> To: SCAHRLDS at listserv.aol.com
>
> The question of markers came up again and I did another post about it.
> Figured I'd share generally, feel free to pass the info around or give your
> own opinions. Apologies for the US-centric viewpoint, but the American
> market is the only one I'm in a position to tap. :)
>
> Crayola is still the best, but stay away from the gimmick stuff. Flip-Tops
> and Twistables both have different ink shades than Classic (washable or
> non), Flip-Tops break and Twistables dry out. However the Click-On set that
> chain together are fine, and fun to play with between clients.
>
> Foohy brand is the next best and indeed, might actually edge out Crayola
> in red durability. Problem is many of the Foohy markers are scented. Great
> grape purple, though.
>
> Colorific are terrific. There are days I think they might supplant Crayola
> as the industry standard if made more available. Great heraldic colors,
> fantastic durability, good price, one in washable and non, wide and narrow
> tips. The red is a traffic-stopper. And unlike Crayola, the no-caps clicker
> markers do as they're supposed to. Mine are two years old with no sign of
> drying yet.
>
> Prang classic colors are very good as well with extremely true colors.
>
> E-color-gy cost a bit more but are totally green. The product ranks up
> with Prang in color trueness and durability.
>
> Rose Art are very good but beware that the green is dark enough to have
> contrast problems with other colors with regard to complex lines, and the
> purple tends too much toward magenta to be safe for submissions. Great
> durability, though.
>
> Sharpie has fit coloring markers that are NOT worth the cost. The 'purple'
> is true magenta so unusable for heraldry, the blue is so dark it leeches
> into adjoining colors and confuses with black, and while they're durable
> the caps hate to close (or open) so they dry out too fast.
>
> Faber-Castell isn't worth the cost, but okay if they're what you already
> have. Great colors and they last fine but they're priced for artists.
>
> Pentel are a good, solid brand with durability but watch out for a
> too-dark green if using on a divided color-color field as it melds into the
> blue or black with lousy contrast (lousier than usual, that is).
>
> Mr. Sketch has good, durable colors as well, and a decent price.
> Recommended.
>
> Busykids is durable, but the blue and green are 'offf' colors so should
> only be used in 2-tincture armory so as to not blur color lines.
>
> Rose Art has slipped terribly in the last three years. I used to recommend
> them but many of the colors have become more fugitive than before. I have a
> test sheet from 2002 with Rose Art ink that's still parsable, I have one
> from last year where the red, yellow and green have faded to impossibly
> paleness.
>
> Color Gear is the same manufacturer as Rose Art but for some reason its
> red is a bit better.
>
> Western Family come from my grocery store and I highly recommend them.
> Cheap, durable. But be careful of the caps, they're those long ones you
> have to shove down to get to click but if you shove too hard you split them.
>
> Bic is sad. real sad. Such a good name, such a lousy product. I went
> through three boxes before I got one that hadn't dried up in the store
> (month-old shipment according to the manager, and I'd never seen them
> before so I believe him). Priced for the brand name, colors terribly
> fugitive (as in if they go from 30 to 75 degrees in one day, they fade).
>
> Colorations. I can't get these things, but wish I could. They're as good
> as Prang with excellent colors and good durability.
>
> Schoastic are _awesome_. Really excellent colors, great coverage, durable
> as all get out. Pricey, though. Highly recommended.
>
> Disney brand. Yuck. No black in the pack, the blue looks weird, the red
> dries out in a month under temperature-controlled conditions.
>
> Color View is liquid ink, not soaked into felt. Don't bother, they won't
> last a month.
>
> Sargent Art has an orangey red, grayish purpure, and yellow that goes
> splotchy over time. Not worth it.
>
> Sandylion, the sticker people, put out Disney branded markers under the
> names 'princess' and 'fairy' colors. Ignore those but if you can get a Cars
> pack, grab em! (I got mine at the dollar store.) All the heraldic
> tinctures, bold colors, and when I bought my pack I promptly lost it in the
> car. In June. I found it in December. They're as good as the day I bought
> them.
>
> Color Club (by Pentech). I get these at Dollar tree and pray they're
> always available. These are the best-kept secret of the marker world. Ten
> colors, two blues, both suitable for heraldry. Minty green you can go
> nebuly against purple or azure with and lose no detail. Perfect yellow,
> absolutely excellent purple. True black. The red's a tad light so go over
> it twice. They don't last as long as the more high-end markers, but they're
> not as big, either. Durable, lasting colors, survive temperature changes in
> the pan or on paper. Highly recommended.
>
>
> And a word on washable markers. ask any parent of a toddler just how
> easily they come off porous surfaces (like siblings). Paper is not a
> surface that things are meant to be washed off of. Washable markers have
> different pigment make-up and so might have colors that are a bit lighter
> than non-washable, but they're true to color (the blue looks blue, not
> aqua, etc.) and they WILL stay on the paper under normal handling. Drop a
> Laurel packet into a puddle and even the staunchest Crayola wanders off ij
> the wet. No nonsense about avoiding washable markers, okay? If the colors
> go on true and don't fade in a week, use them.
>
> All the markers mentioned above have been at least basic tested by me.
> This includes test sheets being pinned to the side of the house all winter,
> test sheets getting tossed around the car and exposed to sun and radical
> temperature changes, test sheets going through the dishwasher (nothing's
> ever survived), being taken to events in a plastic box, having mock-up
> submission forms sent to Texas, California, and back to Portland, and being
> used for real-life SCA heraldic submissions.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/15/2013 7:04 AM, Dave Dudley wrote:
>
>> Being one of the ones who had theirs rejected for crayon coloring (their
>> words, actually used art pencils) I can speak a little to this. My device
>> was submitted in early 2012, went through a local herald, kingdom heraldic
>> process, made it Society level and sat there for several months. I only
>> heard back in April 2013 because the local heralds kept looking it up (and
>> of course got my system notification yesterday). It is a very
>> discouraging
>> process for it to go through all that to finally come back rejected for
>> the
>> coloring (and the only reason given). And being it was only a few months
>> after they made the decision on no wax I'm betting it was a training issue
>> more than anything. Yes, our local officers are awesome and Juliana is
>> right on in that this process is very outdated.... to the point of being
>> very broken and not friendly (and that isn't the only thing in society
>> procedures). And probably the reason I have only heard bad stories out of
>> the process. Well now mine can be added as well along with an attitude of
>> not wanting to even resubmit.
>>
>> Máté
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Jackman-Brink, Julia <
>> Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.**edu <Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Our kingdom and local officers rock on a grand scale (you all know who
>>> you
>>> are), but I have to admit, rejecting a submission because of computer
>>> printed colors? Considering in this modern age you can set your printer
>>> or
>>> Photoshop program to the exact color specs for the Crayola brand of
>>> markers
>>> this should be a no brainer. Bring in the fact all the Heralds forms are
>>> electronic, and the Heralds are requiring forms be sent back
>>> electronically
>>> too. With the push from Society to become more paperless, why are we
>>> still
>>> dealing with an interim paper and rescan process at all? Would be much
>>> easier to bring up the required file, fill in the device (there are
>>> electronic versions of most of the heraldic charges, see cut and paste),
>>> color your file with a couple clicks in Word or Photoshop, hit save,
>>> email
>>> the lot to your respective Kingdom officer or upload it to OSCAR. No
>>> paper
>>> shuffling, no stamps, no extra cost or storage for coloring supplies
>>> either. If a paper copy is needed at a certain level, that officer can
>>> hit
>>> print. It seems to me that they are just perpetuating outdated methods
>>> and
>>> ultimately creating more work for a bunch of folk.
>>>
>>> HE Juliana (not a Herald btw).
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.**gallowglass.org<artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org>[mailto:
>>> artemisia-bounces at lists.**gallowglass.org<artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org>]
>>> On Behalf Of morgan wolf
>>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:27 AM
>>> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>>> READ)
>>>
>>> I really, REALLY try to support my Kingdom Officers, and even more so
>>> support my SCA family in their offices, but rejecting because they used
>>> the
>>> wrong crayons? That strikes me as utterly ridiculous, and a real good
>>> reason to not bother with registration. Having said that, I realize that
>>> this is a Laurel Sovereign/BoD level rule, not something our wonderful
>>> Kingdom Heralds would do to us, which I appreciate.
>>>
>>> Morgan
>>>
>>>
>>> Baron Morgan Blaidd Du,
>>> GHA(2), CQC, PCA, CCH;
>>> Protege and Ghillie to Baron Master James Ulrich MacKellar, OL OP; and
>>> Baroness Mistress Rachel Ashton, OP
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**__
>>>> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald
>>>> <principal-herald at artemisia.**sca.org<principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>>>> >
>>>> To: Aerie <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.**org<artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>>>> >
>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:21 PM
>>>> Subject: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>>>> READ)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>> Below are a couple important notes for those who have recently
>>>> submitted heraldry or who are planning on submitting heraldry soon.
>>>> Please pass this on and cross post in any appropriate locations.
>>>>
>>> Notifications.
>>>
>>>> Our new Golden Pillar, THL Sine has sent out a number of notifications
>>>> this weekend, clearing a bit of a backlog. If you have had a submission
>>>> in the last year or so and have not heard anything, check your e-mail.
>>>> Also, have your local Herald check their mail, as she has updated the
>>>> notification system to let them know when an approval or rejection has
>>>> been sent for an individual.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks to THL Sine for what she has done in her short time in this
>>>> office.
>>>>
>>>> Heraldry Rejections.
>>>>
>>>> There have been two major causes for Heraldry rejections in the last
>>>> year.
>>>>
>>>> 1) Use of wax pencil (colored pencil)/crayon/colored ink from a
>>>> printer. DO NOT use these mediums to color your device. The Laurel
>>>> meetings in May of
>>>> 2011 determined these were cause for return, and your device will be
>>>> returned. Instead, please use Crayola Classic Markers (not the washable
>>>> ones). The 8 count box should have all the right tinctures.
>>>>
>>>> 2) New Submission Standards. As of May 2012, the Laurel has phased out
>>>> the old submissions standards (RfS) and has instituted The Standards
>>>> for Evaluation of Names and Armory (SENA)
>>>>
>>> http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.**html <http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html>.
>>>
>>>> All new submissions and resubmissions must comply with these standards.
>>>> Please review these standards.
>>>>
>>>> One of the changes that seems to be causing rejection is "The charges
>>>> within a charge group should be in either identical
>>>> postures/orientations or an arrangement that includes
>>>> posture/orientation (in cross, combatant, or in pall points outward,
>>>> for example). A charge group in which postures for different charges
>>>> must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period
>>>> examples
>>>>
>>> of that combination of postures."
>>>
>>>> Basically, you cannot have a charge oriented in a different direction
>>>> than any other charges on a device.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me
>>>> directly at principal-herald at artemisia.**sca.org<principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> YIS
>>>> Dunkr Ormrhandleggr
>>>>
>>>> Golden Wing Herald
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Jackman-Brink, Julia" <Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu>
> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:18:44 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
> Fast fingers....I'd like to point out I was commenting on the SOCIETY
> standard, this is not a kingdom one. Didn't mean to slant it that way, I
> thought I was replying to HE Morgan. Someday this will all be electronic
> and standard and everyone's jobs will be easier. :O)
>
> Juliana
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of Jackman-Brink, Julia
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:13 AM
> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
>
> Thanks Dunkr. :) -- Juliana
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of Golden Wing
> Principal Herald
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:11 AM
> To: Aerie
> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
> READ)
>
> All respondents so far have been replied to in private.
>
> Dunkr
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
> http://lists.gallowglass.org/mailman/listinfo/artemisia
>
>
--
--
Life's journey is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved
body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting
*Wow! What a ride!*
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