[Artemisia] Artemisia Digest, Vol 118, Issue 10

[Dan Sena]

While everything is hopefully scanned by now, the final arbiter is an 
actual check of the original documents.

Brendan



On 7/15/2013 9:40 AM, Jeanine Schlauch wrote:
> so, when researching potential conflicts, someone up at Society level
> actually has to paw through boxes and boxes of submissions?
>
> They don't have electronic copies tied into a searchable database for their
> research?  Really?
>
> Morgan
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 9:18 AM, <artemisia-request at lists.gallowglass.org>wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>     1. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
>>        (Golden Wing Principal Herald)
>>     2. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
>>        (Golden Wing Principal Herald)
>>     3. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
>>        (Jackman-Brink, Julia)
>>     4. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ) (Dan Sena)
>>     5. Re: Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE READ)
>>        (Jackman-Brink, Julia)
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald <principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>> To: Aerie <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:50:34 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>> I have scanned some replies to this and would like to not that this is NOT
>> a Kingdom rule, we are just passing the rules along. This is coming down
>> from the Laurel level (society). The reasoning behind this being that they
>> (the Laurel) are required to store a hard copy of all submissions, and what
>> is being reported down to us is that wax is melting when in storage. Also,
>> printer ink fades after 2-3 years. The Crayola markers are staying true
>> color.
>>
>> If you have concerns with these rules, please feel free to contact me off
>> list.
>>
>> I know there is a LOT of frustration out there right now regarding
>> rejection (being one of the people who's device was rejected in the last
>> year for this reason and the new orientation rules).
>>
>> We are not making these rules at the Kingdom level to make things
>> difficult. I am passing the rules that have come down to us to try to make
>> things easier for everyone.
>>
>> Once again, if you have concerns with or questions about the rules, please
>> contact me off list at principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org.
>>
>> YIS
>> Dunkr Ormrhandleggr
>> Golden Wing
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald <principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>> To: Aerie <Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 09:10:40 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>> All respondents so far have been replied to in private.
>>
>> Dunkr
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Jackman-Brink, Julia" <Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu>
>> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:12:56 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>> Thanks Dunkr.  :) -- Juliana
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
>> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of Golden Wing
>> Principal Herald
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:11 AM
>> To: Aerie
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>>
>> All respondents so far have been replied to in private.
>>
>> Dunkr
>> _______________________________________________
>> Artemisia mailing list
>> Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
>> http://lists.gallowglass.org/mailman/listinfo/artemisia
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Dan Sena <arghun at gmail.com>
>> To: artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:04:18 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>> It would help people understand and comply with this ruling if the why and
>> wherefore of said ruling was explained.
>>
>> When you submit armory what is being registered is the actual depiction
>> you colored, NOT the text explaining the armory.  If the two do not match
>> when they get to Laurel, the text (Blazon) is adjusted to match the picture
>> (emblazon).  So having the colors be stable is critical.  Also, wax based
>> forms like art pencils, crayons, etc melt and smear.  There are examples of
>> said forms of coloring melting in the mail and ruining all the forms in a
>> submissions packet.  (Think sitting in a mailbox in the sun on a summer
>> day).
>>
>>    The reason Crayola Classic markers are recommended is that the color
>> stays what was put on the paper for a long time.  If the Laurel office has
>> to do an actual comparison ten years down the road (like to your registered
>> arms compared to a new submission) the green will still be green, the
>> yellow yellow etc.
>>
>>    98% of computer printing the colors migrate over time - sometimes as
>> little as 6 months!  Yellow becomes brown, Red, Pink etc.  Thus why
>> computer printed color is not allowed.  All heralds will celebrate when
>> this is no longer an issue!
>>
>> in 2009 a herald by the name of Tecangel Bach in An Tir published a
>> "marker test" to the SCA-HERALDS newsgroup, which has been posted to the
>> SCA Heraldry Chat Facebook group files section.  I will add it to the
>> bottom of this post.
>>
>> PLEASE Understand - submissions heralds know they are in a customer
>> service position.  None of them like having to reject submissions, and do
>> not do so for arbitrary reasons.
>>
>> HL Brendan ap Llewelyn
>> former Kingdom Consulting Herald, An TIr
>>
>> ==============================**=========================
>>
>> From: Teceangl
>> Date: Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:12 AM
>> Subject: Markers, markers, markers
>> To: SCAHRLDS at listserv.aol.com
>>
>> The question of markers came up again and I did another post about it.
>> Figured I'd share generally, feel free to pass the info around or give your
>> own opinions.  Apologies for the US-centric viewpoint, but the American
>> market is the only one I'm in a position to tap. :)
>>
>> Crayola is still the best, but stay away from the gimmick stuff. Flip-Tops
>> and Twistables both have different ink shades than Classic (washable or
>> non), Flip-Tops break and Twistables dry out. However the Click-On set that
>> chain together are fine, and fun to play with between clients.
>>
>> Foohy brand is the next best and indeed, might actually edge out Crayola
>> in red durability. Problem is many of the Foohy markers are scented. Great
>> grape purple, though.
>>
>> Colorific are terrific. There are days I think they might supplant Crayola
>> as the industry standard if made more available. Great heraldic colors,
>> fantastic durability, good price, one in washable and non, wide and narrow
>> tips. The red is a traffic-stopper. And unlike Crayola, the no-caps clicker
>> markers do as they're supposed to. Mine are two years old with no sign of
>> drying yet.
>>
>> Prang classic colors are very good as well with extremely true colors.
>>
>> E-color-gy cost a bit more but are totally green. The product ranks up
>> with Prang in color trueness and durability.
>>
>> Rose Art are very good but beware that the green is dark enough to have
>> contrast problems with other colors with regard to complex lines, and the
>> purple tends too much toward magenta to be safe for submissions. Great
>> durability, though.
>>
>> Sharpie has fit coloring markers that are NOT worth the cost. The 'purple'
>> is true magenta so unusable for heraldry, the blue is so dark it leeches
>> into adjoining colors and confuses with black, and while they're durable
>> the caps hate to close (or open) so they dry out too fast.
>>
>> Faber-Castell isn't worth the cost, but okay if they're what you already
>> have. Great colors and they last fine but they're priced for artists.
>>
>> Pentel are a good, solid brand with durability but watch out for a
>> too-dark green if using on a divided color-color field as it melds into the
>> blue or black with lousy contrast (lousier than usual, that is).
>>
>> Mr. Sketch has good, durable colors as well, and a decent price.
>> Recommended.
>>
>> Busykids is durable, but the blue and green are 'offf' colors so should
>> only be used in 2-tincture armory so as to not blur color lines.
>>
>> Rose Art has slipped terribly in the last three years. I used to recommend
>> them but many of the colors have become more fugitive than before. I have a
>> test sheet from 2002 with Rose Art ink that's still parsable, I have one
>> from last year where the red, yellow and green have faded to impossibly
>> paleness.
>>
>> Color Gear is the same manufacturer as Rose Art but for some reason its
>> red is a bit better.
>>
>> Western Family come from my grocery store and I highly recommend them.
>> Cheap, durable. But be careful of the caps, they're those long ones you
>> have to shove down to get to click but if you shove too hard you split them.
>>
>> Bic is sad. real sad. Such a good name, such a lousy product. I went
>> through three boxes before I got one that hadn't dried up in the store
>> (month-old shipment according to the manager, and I'd never seen them
>> before so I believe him). Priced for the brand name, colors terribly
>> fugitive (as in if they go from 30 to 75 degrees in one day, they fade).
>>
>> Colorations. I can't get these things, but wish I could. They're as good
>> as Prang with excellent colors and good durability.
>>
>> Schoastic are _awesome_. Really excellent colors, great coverage, durable
>> as all get out. Pricey, though. Highly recommended.
>>
>> Disney brand. Yuck. No black in the pack, the blue looks weird, the red
>> dries out in a month under temperature-controlled conditions.
>>
>> Color View is liquid ink, not soaked into felt. Don't bother, they won't
>> last a month.
>>
>> Sargent Art has an orangey red, grayish purpure, and yellow that goes
>> splotchy over time. Not worth it.
>>
>> Sandylion, the sticker people, put out Disney branded markers under the
>> names 'princess' and 'fairy' colors. Ignore those but if you can get a Cars
>> pack, grab em! (I got mine at the dollar store.) All the heraldic
>> tinctures, bold colors, and when I bought my pack I promptly lost it in the
>> car. In June. I found it in December. They're as good as the day I bought
>> them.
>>
>> Color Club (by Pentech). I get these at Dollar tree and pray they're
>> always available. These are the best-kept secret of the marker world. Ten
>> colors, two blues, both suitable for heraldry. Minty green you can go
>> nebuly against purple or azure with and lose no detail. Perfect yellow,
>> absolutely excellent purple. True black. The red's a tad light so go over
>> it twice. They don't last as long as the more high-end markers, but they're
>> not as big, either. Durable, lasting colors, survive temperature changes in
>> the pan or on paper. Highly recommended.
>>
>>
>> And a word on washable markers. ask any parent of a toddler just how
>> easily they come off porous surfaces (like siblings).  Paper is not a
>> surface that things are meant to be washed off of. Washable markers have
>> different pigment make-up and so might have colors that are a bit lighter
>> than non-washable, but they're true to color (the blue looks blue, not
>> aqua, etc.) and they WILL stay on the paper under normal handling. Drop a
>> Laurel packet into a puddle and even the staunchest Crayola wanders off ij
>> the wet.  No nonsense about avoiding washable markers, okay? If the colors
>> go on true and don't fade in a week, use them.
>>
>> All the markers mentioned above have been at least basic tested by me.
>> This includes test sheets being pinned to the side of the house all winter,
>> test sheets getting tossed around the car and exposed to sun and radical
>> temperature changes, test sheets going through the dishwasher (nothing's
>> ever survived), being taken to events in a plastic box, having mock-up
>> submission forms sent to Texas, California, and back to Portland, and being
>> used for real-life SCA heraldic submissions.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/15/2013 7:04 AM, Dave Dudley wrote:
>>
>>> Being one of the ones who had theirs rejected for crayon coloring (their
>>> words, actually used art pencils) I can speak a little to this.  My device
>>> was submitted in early 2012, went through a local herald, kingdom heraldic
>>> process, made it Society level and sat there for several months.  I only
>>> heard back in April 2013 because the local heralds kept looking it up (and
>>> of course got my system notification yesterday).  It is a very
>>> discouraging
>>> process for it to go through all that to finally come back rejected for
>>> the
>>> coloring (and the only reason given).  And being it was only a few months
>>> after they made the decision on no wax I'm betting it was a training issue
>>> more than anything.  Yes, our local officers are awesome and Juliana is
>>> right on in that this process is very outdated.... to the point of being
>>> very broken and not friendly (and that isn't the only thing in society
>>> procedures).  And probably the reason I have only heard bad stories out of
>>> the process.  Well now mine can be added as well along with an attitude of
>>> not wanting to even resubmit.
>>>
>>> Máté
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:45 AM, Jackman-Brink, Julia <
>>> Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.**edu <Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Our kingdom and local officers rock on a grand scale (you all know who
>>>> you
>>>> are), but I have to admit, rejecting a submission because of computer
>>>> printed colors?  Considering in this modern age you can set your printer
>>>> or
>>>> Photoshop program to the exact color specs for the Crayola brand of
>>>> markers
>>>> this should be a no brainer.  Bring in the fact all the Heralds forms are
>>>> electronic, and the Heralds are requiring forms be sent back
>>>> electronically
>>>> too. With the push from Society to become more paperless, why are we
>>>> still
>>>> dealing with an interim paper and rescan process at all?  Would be much
>>>> easier to bring up the required file, fill in the device (there are
>>>> electronic versions of most of the heraldic charges, see cut and paste),
>>>> color your file with a couple clicks in Word or Photoshop, hit save,
>>>> email
>>>> the lot to your respective Kingdom officer or upload it to OSCAR.  No
>>>> paper
>>>> shuffling, no stamps, no extra cost or storage for coloring supplies
>>>> either.  If a paper copy is needed at a certain level, that officer can
>>>> hit
>>>> print.  It seems to me that they are just perpetuating outdated methods
>>>> and
>>>> ultimately creating more work for a bunch of folk.
>>>>
>>>> HE Juliana  (not a Herald btw).
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.**gallowglass.org<artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org>[mailto:
>>>> artemisia-bounces at lists.**gallowglass.org<artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org>]
>>>> On Behalf Of morgan wolf
>>>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:27 AM
>>>> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>>>> READ)
>>>>
>>>> I really, REALLY try to support my Kingdom Officers, and even more so
>>>> support my SCA family in their offices, but rejecting because they used
>>>> the
>>>> wrong crayons?  That strikes me as utterly ridiculous, and a real good
>>>> reason to not bother with registration.  Having said that, I realize that
>>>> this is a Laurel Sovereign/BoD level rule, not something our wonderful
>>>> Kingdom Heralds would do to us, which I appreciate.
>>>>
>>>> Morgan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Baron Morgan Blaidd Du,
>>>> GHA(2), CQC, PCA, CCH;
>>>> Protege and Ghillie to Baron Master James Ulrich MacKellar, OL OP; and
>>>> Baroness Mistress Rachel Ashton, OP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   ______________________________**__
>>>>> From: Golden Wing Principal Herald
>>>>> <principal-herald at artemisia.**sca.org<principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>>>>> To: Aerie <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.**org<artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:21 PM
>>>>> Subject: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>>>>> READ)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>> Below are a couple important notes for those who have recently
>>>>> submitted heraldry or who are planning on submitting heraldry soon.
>>>>> Please pass this on and cross post in any appropriate locations.
>>>>>
>>>> Notifications.
>>>>
>>>>> Our new Golden Pillar, THL Sine has sent out a number of notifications
>>>>> this weekend, clearing a bit of a backlog. If you have had a submission
>>>>> in the last year or so and have not heard anything, check your e-mail.
>>>>> Also, have your local Herald check their mail, as she has updated the
>>>>> notification system to let them know when an approval or rejection has
>>>>> been sent for an individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks to THL Sine for what she has done in her short time in this
>>>>> office.
>>>>>
>>>>> Heraldry Rejections.
>>>>>
>>>>> There have been two major causes for Heraldry rejections in the last
>>>>> year.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Use of wax pencil (colored pencil)/crayon/colored ink from a
>>>>> printer. DO NOT use these mediums to color your device. The Laurel
>>>>> meetings in May of
>>>>> 2011 determined these were cause for return, and your device will be
>>>>> returned. Instead, please use Crayola Classic Markers (not the washable
>>>>> ones). The 8 count box should have all the right tinctures.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) New Submission Standards. As of May 2012, the Laurel has phased out
>>>>> the old submissions standards (RfS) and has instituted The Standards
>>>>> for Evaluation of Names and Armory (SENA)
>>>>>
>>>> http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.**html <http://heraldry.sca.org/sena.html>.
>>>>
>>>>> All new submissions and resubmissions must comply with these standards.
>>>>> Please review these standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the changes that seems to be causing rejection is "The charges
>>>>> within a charge group should be in either identical
>>>>> postures/orientations or an arrangement that includes
>>>>> posture/orientation (in cross, combatant, or in pall points outward,
>>>>> for example). A charge group in which postures for different charges
>>>>> must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period
>>>>> examples
>>>>>
>>>> of that combination of postures."
>>>>
>>>>> Basically, you cannot have a charge oriented in a different direction
>>>>> than any other charges on a device.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me
>>>>> directly at principal-herald at artemisia.**sca.org<principal-herald at artemisia.sca.org>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> YIS
>>>>> Dunkr Ormrhandleggr
>>>>>
>>>>> Golden Wing Herald
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Jackman-Brink, Julia" <Julia.Jackman-Brink at mso.umt.edu>
>> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list <artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org>
>> Cc:
>> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:18:44 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>> Fast fingers....I'd like to point out I was commenting on the SOCIETY
>> standard, this is not a kingdom one. Didn't mean to slant it that way, I
>> thought I was replying to HE Morgan. Someday this will all be electronic
>> and standard and everyone's jobs will be easier.  :O)
>>
>> Juliana
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
>> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of Jackman-Brink, Julia
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:13 AM
>> To: Kingdom of Artemisia mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>>
>> Thanks Dunkr.  :) -- Juliana
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org [mailto:
>> artemisia-bounces at lists.gallowglass.org] On Behalf Of Golden Wing
>> Principal Herald
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 9:11 AM
>> To: Aerie
>> Subject: Re: [Artemisia] Heraldry Notifications and Rejections (PLEASE
>> READ)
>>
>> All respondents so far have been replied to in private.
>>
>> Dunkr
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org
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>>
>>
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>>
>